Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

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AM
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by AM »

Pffft try finding a few that are prepared to do anything other than the cream easy jobs for the biggest money. Gone are the days when they had to show some proof that they have even completed a trade and associated college and post trade studies. Plus these days they want to sign you off as being complete a year or so early so you can be counted in the great unwashed of "new jobs created" by the govt of the day. Trades people are created when they spend 4 years or however long the apprentership is with one builder or employer that does all aspects of the chosen trade not just one facet otherwise they come out ant a just only able to do that one thing and they make a living and train others to do just that one thing. I am worried where it will end up in another 15 years when the old timers finish up. But hey I will be one of them old retired buggers so good luck to the general public of that generation looking for a competent tradesperson that is willing and able to do the task required.
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by ponyplay »

AM wrote:Pffft try finding a few that are prepared to do anything other than the cream easy jobs for the biggest money. Gone are the days when they had to show some proof that they have even completed a trade and associated college and post trade studies. Plus these days they want to sign you off as being complete a year or so early so you can be counted in the great unwashed of "new jobs created" by the govt of the day. Trades people are created when they spend 4 years or however long the apprentership is with one builder or employer that does all aspects of the chosen trade not just one facet otherwise they come out ant a just only able to do that one thing and they make a living and train others to do just that one thing. I am worried where it will end up in another 15 years when the old timers finish up. But hey I will be one of them old retired buggers so good luck to the general public of that generation looking for a competent tradesperson that is willing and able to do the task required.


Wat you says is correct , but over the years i have met just as many old hacks that are from the wild west days .. More so up this way.
One of the big problem is employes put apprentices on as cheap labour and dont care if there learning all aspects or any thing at all to that point , apprentice $12 hr labourer $20 to $45 buck.
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by AM »

ponyplay wrote:
AM wrote:Pffft try finding a few that are prepared to do anything other than the cream easy jobs for the biggest money. Gone are the days when they had to show some proof that they have even completed a trade and associated college and post trade studies. Plus these days they want to sign you off as being complete a year or so early so you can be counted in the great unwashed of "new jobs created" by the govt of the day. Trades people are created when they spend 4 years or however long the apprentership is with one builder or employer that does all aspects of the chosen trade not just one facet otherwise they come out ant a just only able to do that one thing and they make a living and train others to do just that one thing. I am worried where it will end up in another 15 years when the old timers finish up. But hey I will be one of them old retired buggers so good luck to the general public of that generation looking for a competent tradesperson that is willing and able to do the task required.


Wat you says is correct , but over the years i have met just as many old hacks that are from the wild west days .. More so up this way.
One of the big problem is employes put apprentices on as cheap labour and dont care if there learning all aspects or any thing at all to that point , apprentice $12 hr labourer $20 to $45 buck.
Its a tough one but it is going to end in tears.
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by nomad »

I did the full 4 year apprenticeship back in the 70’s. I remember a tech teacher telling us back then that on his recent trip to the US there were no real tradies, just specialists in certain areas of the trade. Ie door hangers, window fitters etc. etc.
He predicted the future when it would take over here as well.
On the east coast its hard to get a real tradie as most are specialists.

For the past mth, I've been back on the tools and its killing me.
Not sure I could do it all over again but the $ are too good to pass up so I just pick my jobs. I reckon I've earned it for all the Hard yakka I put in over the years
I got out of it ages ago but I should have stayed in it like most of my mates who are pulling in over $750k per year. One bloke has drawers full of $50 notes stacked up and doesn’t know what to do with it. Cant spend it or ATOwill smash him.
I offered to look after a new bluewater boat moored up here for him :angel:
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by willow300 »

Nomad if you don't mind me asking what trade or occupation can earn one $750k a year? I'm thinking of a career change, but want it to be worthwhile.
nomad wrote:I did the full 4 year apprenticeship back in the 70’s. I remember a tech teacher telling us back then that on his recent trip to the US there were no real tradies, just specialists in certain areas of the trade. Ie door hangers, window fitters etc. etc.
He predicted the future when it would take over here as well.
On the east coast its hard to get a real tradie as most are specialists.

For the past mth, I've been back on the tools and its killing me.
Not sure I could do it all over again but the $ are too good to pass up so I just pick my jobs. I reckon I've earned it for all the Hard yakka I put in over the years
I got out of it ages ago but I should have stayed in it like most of my mates who are pulling in over $750k per year. One bloke has drawers full of $50 notes stacked up and doesn’t know what to do with it. Cant spend it or ATOwill smash him.
I offered to look after a new bluewater boat moored up here for him :angel:
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by blw »

Apprentice ships are no longer time based. If you are deamed competent and finish theory you can be signed off. Its very rare to find a tradesmen that does all aspects. This is due to all the different parts being contracted out. Take me for example. I have only mainly worked with steel wall frames and standing timber and steel trusses but I Will be signed off as a carpenter. Different trades should be broken down.

cheers Brent
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by Matt Flynn »

Nomad if you don't mind me asking what trade or occupation can earn one $750k a year? I'm thinking of a career change ...
Ditto ... $750k sounds good!
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by nomad »

Blw
I agree that it should be competency based as well. I remember that many of the jobs we did were just glorified labouring tasks.
When I started out, I earned $32/week gross.
No idea of what a chippy gets these days

I knew blokes who worked in factories making window frames and they ended up with the same trade cert that we all did


willow300
We are all in our mid fifties now.
We all started out as carpenters and joiners. Finished that trade 4 years, did Night tech for 3 years doing Building foreman and clerk of works, then another year night tech doing builders business and another 12 mths night tech doing building surveyor. then did a degree in the 80's

Most of us were in commercial construction (major jobs like hospitals, schools and multi storey stuff – any major job our employer usually scored it)

Some of the boys left commercial and went out project home building (frowned on in general) and the rest of us stayed in commercial work.
Some of us did “puss’ work. Ie work that others didn't want to touch because of the financial risks.

The mate who went project homes pathway, has now bailed out and is now down in Canberra with the rest of the mates doing govt commercial work.
That’s where the $ is and they are straight forward - Ie you don’t have to deal with mums and dads who want to change everything and not pay for the changes.

We all started out in our mid teens (15 and 16 y/o) but those days are gone.
One of my mates is a general mgr of a large construction co and they don’t employ apprentices anymore. They have young blokes who have a building degree (no such thing when we were young) and then come on board as cadets.

There is still lots of $ to make (for me its poop jobs) but you will never become rich working for someone else.
You'll never earn $750 working as a tradie but you have to start there

Get your skills and find a niche, get out on your own – big risks but big $

You have to be cut out for it and accept being covered in sweat and dirt all day outside

during the past mth, ive had a 15 y/o kid working for me on $20/hr.
that's 3x what he gets at maccas but he is buggered at the end of the day

Its funny that people will pay $100/hr plus for a mechanic but balk at that for a chippy.
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by blw »

nomad wrote:Blw
I agree that it should be competency based as well. I remember that many of the jobs we did were just glorified labouring tasks.
When I started out, I earned $32/week gross.
No idea of what a chippy gets these days

I knew blokes who worked in factories making window frames and they ended up with the same trade cert that we all did


willow300
We are all in our mid fifties now.
We all started out as carpenters and joiners. Finished that trade 4 years, did Night tech for 3 years doing Building foreman and clerk of works, then another year night tech doing builders business and another 12 mths night tech doing building surveyor. then did a degree in the 80's

Most of us were in commercial construction (major jobs like hospitals, schools and multi storey stuff – any major job our employer usually scored it)

Some of the boys left commercial and went out project home building (frowned on in general) and the rest of us stayed in commercial work.
Some of us did “puss’ work. Ie work that others didn't want to touch because of the financial risks.

The mate who went project homes pathway, has now bailed out and is now down in Canberra with the rest of the mates doing govt commercial work.
That’s where the $ is and they are straight forward - Ie you don’t have to deal with mums and dads who want to change everything and not pay for the changes.

We all started out in our mid teens (15 and 16 y/o) but those days are gone.
One of my mates is a general mgr of a large construction co and they don’t employ apprentices anymore. They have young blokes who have a building degree (no such thing when we were young) and then come on board as cadets.

There is still lots of $ to make (for me its poop jobs) but you will never become rich working for someone else.
You'll never earn $750 working as a tradie but you have to start there

Get your skills and find a niche, get out on your own – big risks but big $

You have to be cut out for it and accept being covered in sweat and dirt all day outside

during the past mth, ive had a 15 y/o kid working for me on $20/hr.
that's 3x what he gets at maccas but he is buggered at the end of the day

Its funny that people will pay $100/hr plus for a mechanic but balk at that for a chippy.
I'm already over the dirt and sweat Haha. That's why I'm going to push dirt instead and sit on my arse for more money.

cheers Brent
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by AM »

blw wrote:Apprentice ships are no longer time based. If you are deamed competent and finish theory you can be signed off. Its very rare to find a tradesmen that does all aspects. This is due to all the different parts being contracted out. Take me for example. I have only mainly worked with steel wall frames and standing timber and steel trusses but I Will be signed off as a carpenter. Different trades should be broken down.

cheers Brent
Sorry blw but your quite accurate and condensed version of the solution is my thrust of the very problem. Dosent mater how competent they are deamed and what sort of a theorist the candidate might be the way it used to pan out that apprentices didnt have the life skills to take the next step and money until they had been in the trade for the period and it worked. You could fly through three years of college, start your 3 year Building forman clerk of works and finish that but no builders licence intil 5 years out of your time, so most had a year or two of from college and found it hard to go back. Diferent trades should not be broken down because the wy it goes one guy comes in to do just one facet that he thinks he knows about and dosent have any idea or a poop for that mater about the what the next bloke had to do, he is probabbly thinking that way because the bloke before hime didnt know ior care what he left for the next guy to carry on with either. The world word be a lot better place in regards to trades if 1000 builders built 20 houses a year than 20 builders building 1000 a year
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by blw »

AM wrote:
blw wrote:Apprentice ships are no longer time based. If you are deamed competent and finish theory you can be signed off. Its very rare to find a tradesmen that does all aspects. This is due to all the different parts being contracted out. Take me for example. I have only mainly worked with steel wall frames and standing timber and steel trusses but I Will be signed off as a carpenter. Different trades should be broken down.

cheers Brent
Sorry blw but your quite accurate and condensed version of the solution is my thrust of the very problem. Dosent mater how competent they are deamed and what sort of a theorist the candidate might be the way it used to pan out that apprentices didnt have the life skills to take the next step and money until they had been in the trade for the period and it worked. You could fly through three years of college, start your 3 year Building forman clerk of works and finish that but no builders licence intil 5 years out of your time, so most had a year or two of from college and found it hard to go back. Diferent trades should not be broken down because the wy it goes one guy comes in to do just one facet that he thinks he knows about and dosent have any idea or a poop for that mater about the what the next bloke had to do, he is probabbly thinking that way because the bloke before hime didnt know ior care what he left for the next guy to carry on with either. The world word be a lot better place in regards to trades if 1000 builders built 20 houses a year than 20 builders building 1000 a year
yeah no worries mate, I see where your coming from.

cheers Brent
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by AM »

blw wrote:
AM wrote:
blw wrote:Apprentice ships are no longer time based. If you are deamed competent and finish theory you can be signed off. Its very rare to find a tradesmen that does all aspects. This is due to all the different parts being contracted out. Take me for example. I have only mainly worked with steel wall frames and standing timber and steel trusses but I Will be signed off as a carpenter. Different trades should be broken down.

cheers Brent
Sorry blw but your quite accurate and condensed version of the solution is my thrust of the very problem. Dosent mater how competent they are deamed and what sort of a theorist the candidate might be the way it used to pan out that apprentices didnt have the life skills to take the next step and money until they had been in the trade for the period and it worked. You could fly through three years of college, start your 3 year Building forman clerk of works and finish that but no builders licence intil 5 years out of your time, so most had a year or two of from college and found it hard to go back. Diferent trades should not be broken down because the wy it goes one guy comes in to do just one facet that he thinks he knows about and dosent have any idea or a poop for that mater about the what the next bloke had to do, he is probabbly thinking that way because the bloke before hime didnt know ior care what he left for the next guy to carry on with either. The world word be a lot better place in regards to trades if 1000 builders built 20 houses a year than 20 builders building 1000 a year
yeah no worries mate, I see where your coming from.

cheers Brent
Its a bl..dy tough one alright but the prices just go up and up, and that isnt helping either.
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by Banana Man »

AM wrote:
blw wrote:Apprentice ships are no longer time based. If you are deamed competent and finish theory you can be signed off. Its very rare to find a tradesmen that does all aspects. This is due to all the different parts being contracted out. Take me for example. I have only mainly worked with steel wall frames and standing timber and steel trusses but I Will be signed off as a carpenter. Different trades should be broken down.

cheers Brent
Sorry blw but your quite accurate and condensed version of the solution is my thrust of the very problem. Dosent mater how competent they are deamed and what sort of a theorist the candidate might be the way it used to pan out that apprentices didnt have the life skills to take the next step and money until they had been in the trade for the period and it worked. You could fly through three years of college, start your 3 year Building forman clerk of works and finish that but no builders licence intil 5 years out of your time, so most had a year or two of from college and found it hard to go back. Diferent trades should not be broken down because the wy it goes one guy comes in to do just one facet that he thinks he knows about and dosent have any idea or a poop for that mater about the what the next bloke had to do, he is probabbly thinking that way because the bloke before hime didnt know ior care what he left for the next guy to carry on with either. The world word be a lot better place in regards to trades if 1000 builders built 20 houses a year than 20 builders building 1000 a year


i agree, to an extent.. I have recently completed an electrical apprenticeship and the whole training package (theory & practical requirements) needs to be overhauled.

Though i cant speak for carpenters or any other trade, I would debate that the sparky trade should be broken down.. My experience involves manufacturing and installing industrial control systems. Never done High Voltage work and have only done the rare domestic job. There is nothing that says I cant go out with my licence and perform HV work, nor is there anything preventing a purely domestic sparky from working on highly automated control systems with no previous experience. Now im not saying that I am above any other person in the trade, but there are certain safety issues (for one point) involved with different aspects of electrical work, all areas of which are covered under the one licence to work that has been awarded off of a TAFE/VOCed training package that is seriously outdated and based heavily around domestic electrical work...

just my view.
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Re: Darwin is 'tradie heaven' - stats

Post by nomad »

AM wrote:The world word be a lot better place in regards to trades if 1000 builders built 20 houses a year than 20 builders building 1000 a year
Agree 100% Am
My mate who did the project homes work now agrees that the quality in project homes is poop. He disagreed when he was raking in the $ though

I’m not sure what’s it like up here but the builders licence was required to do domestic work.
The joke is that, legally, you could build the opera house without the need for any builders licence
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