AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

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AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Chris Makepeace »

Hi Everyone
Over the past few weeks we have had a number of discussions with the NT Government on the boat registration/identification issue and we have also met with the Northern Land Council. At this stage we are waiting for a response from the NT Government to some proposals we put and I will provide you with an update sometime in the next week or so.
In the meantime, we need to start discussions on the important issue of possible new possession and size limits. Please note that this is an AFANT initiative, it is something being proposed by the NT Government and we genuinely want to hear what people think so we can try and get some consensus on the issue.

Possible Changes to Possession and Size Limits
I’m sure you are all now well aware of the revised recreational fishing possession limits and other regulations that came into effect in the Territory in January this year. You should also be aware that a number of changes related to the Daly River are currently being considered by the NT Government. These were widely circulated for comment by NT Fisheries earlier this year.
The changes implemented in January were on the table for a number of years. The first public submission phase of that exercise was conducted way back in September 2006 and the changes were under discussion a year or so before that. This means that we have not had a good look at our recreational possession limits and other regulations for about five years and it is now time to start thinking about any changes that we believe are now needed. Many ideas have been thrown up by fishers in the Territory over the past few years and, looking at some better biological and fishery data now available to us, a few concerns have emerged that we need to consider.
To get this process under way, we want to know what changes you think we should be looking at to ensure high-quality recreational fishing in the Territory well into the future. We will try and collate the various proposals and ideas that you put to us and then put these out to everyone for further discussion. Hopefully, we can develop proposals that have the support of recreational fishers so we can put them to the NT Government and have the regulations updated in much less time than it took for the most recent changes. You are welcome to raise any proposals or suggestions you wish and we will consider them but be aware that the long-term sustainability of our fish and fishery should be our prime focus.
A list of the current recreational possession limits is shown below for your reference.
General feedback from recreational fishers and indications from our work with NT Fisheries tell us that our recreational fishery is on the whole in good condition. However we are seeing increases in the amount of recreational fishing taking place in some locations and particular species in some areas may be in need of more protective regulations. For example, we think that this might be the case with golden snapper in the area around Darwin and perhaps around King Ash Bay in the Gulf.
As well as increasing numbers of fishers we now have much better technology to target fish, thus improving our ability to catch them in a broader range of conditions. GPS units, incredibly effective fish finders, online fishing forums and access to detailed weather forecasts are some of the “new technology” that is now available to us.
The recommendations we come up with from this process should be focused on ensuring that we avoid placing our fish and fishing at risk. It is much easier to put measures in place to avoid adverse fishery impacts than it is to reverse problems once they become obvious. With that in mind we have provided some discussion points below specifically relating to golden snapper and other reef fish as well as issues to consider on other species more generally.
Note that just because an idea is listed here, it does not necessarily represent AFANT’s views nor do we suggest it should be supported. We are simply providing you with some of the ideas that have been put to us by recreational fishers as examples of the things that might be considered to get the process started.

Golden Snapper and Other Reef Fish
Golden snapper are slow growing and maturing. Males are generally not sexually mature until they are around five years of age and 47 cm, for females it is about 8 years old and 63 cm. These snapper spawn offshore but juveniles move into the rivers, creeks and estuaries and tend to stay there until they reach a reasonable size. In places like Darwin Harbour and the King Ash Bay area juveniles are heavily targeted by recreational fishers and adults are increasingly now targeted offshore in the area from the Peron Islands to Cobourg Peninsula. Like black jewfish, we now know that golden snapper are likely to be seriously injured by barotrauma (the impact on fish organs of being rapidly brought from deep water to the surface) and they are unlikely to survive if they are released after being caught in water deeper than 15 metres.
There is reasonable agreement among NT Fisheries researchers and managers and members of the Coastal Line Fishery Management Advisory Committee (AFANT is a member of this MAC) that some further measures are necessary to ensure sustainability of recreational fishing for golden snapper, at least in the wider area around Darwin. We also need to take into account that often fishing for golden snapper actually means fishing for snapper or reef fish in general and so any consideration of new regulations might need to apply to other snappers as well (and perhaps emperors, cod and possibly coral trout as they are also often taken when targeting snapper). How that would best be done to make it work is something to think about. I think it is likely that some changes will be introduced for this fishery so it is important that we have your views and ideas to take to the table.
Given that we already have a five-fish possession limit for golden snapper but that all other snappers sit within the general possession limit of 30 fish (which means it is technically possible to have 30 tricky snapper or stripies or even red emperor), this raises a number of possibilities and questions. For instance:
• Could we simply reduce the possession limit for golden snapper to two or three and would it solve the problem?
• Should we consider individual possession limits for other snappers and emperors?
• How could we get recreational fishers to stop fishing for golden snapper in deeper waters once they have caught their possession limit (or as many fish as they wish to take) recognising that most released fish will likely die from barotrauma impacts.
• Should we look at different regulations for more heavily fished areas such as around Darwin and maybe King Ash Bay?
• Should we look at minimum, maximum or maybe slot size limits for golden snapper, other snapper and/or emperors?
• What about a limit of say four snapper between 30 and 50 cm but only two over 50 cm? That might allow both the harbour and offshore fishers to still get a feed.
• Should we look at reducing the general possession limit from 30 fish to say 15 or 20?
• Could we improve the situation if we set a combined possession limit for the more desirable fish like snapper — say a combined limit of 10 for any combination of snappers, emperors and coral trout for example?
• Should we have some form of boat limits on snappers such as we do for mud crabs so that there is a limit on catches regardless of the number of people on board?
• It has even been suggested that we should look at closed seasons for reef fish in some specific areas where they aggregate.
There are a range of possible actions we can take and we would be interested in your views on these and any others you might come up with. Keep in mind that we will almost certainly need to make some changes for reefies in general and golden snapper in particular to protect stocks in the Darwin area and we will need the advice of fisheries scientists and managers to ensure that those changes we do propose will have the desired result.
Other Possible Changes
As I said earlier, over the past few years recreational fishers have been suggesting a range of changes to regulations that they think should be considered. Some of these suggestions are listed here and we are open to any others (or comments on the ones listed).
• Setting a maximum size limit (say 90 or 100 cm) for barramundi.
• Reducing the barramundi possession limit to 3 (or even 2) fish Territory-wide.
• Reducing the minimum size limit of barramundi to 50 cm.
• Put in a boat limit of 2 or 4 barramundi.
• Put in size limits for a range of different fish, not just barramundi.
• Reducing the general possession limit to 15 or 20 fish.
• Limiting the maximum number of any particular species in possession to a maximum of 10.
• Making the possession limits apply in your place of residence (that is, the limits would apply wherever you are including at home).
• Put a possession limit of 3 on threadfin salmon (there are concerns that we are seeing significantly reduced numbers of threadies these days).
• Put a possession limit of 5 on blue salmon
• Put a possession limit of 10 on bream.
• Put a possession limit of 5 on mangrove jack.
• Put a possession limit of 5 on parrot/tusk fish.
• Put a possession limit of 10 on javelin fish.
• Put a possession limit of 5 on trevally of any species.
• Put a possession limit of 5 on queenfish of any species.
• Put a possession limit of 2 on longtail tuna (in recognition that they are now a recreational-only species).
• Put a possession limit of 5 on tuna of any species other than longtail.
• Put a possession limit of 1 on sailfish (in recognition of their sport and game fish status).
• Put a possession limit of 1 on marlin (in recognition of their sport and game fish status).
• Put in an overall boat limit of three times the personal possession limit when three or more people are on board (as it is for mud crabs).
There may be other ideas you think we should consider so please let us know. We will develop a paper based on your feedback that can be distributed widely for further discussion so please get your comments to us in the next couple of weeks.

Current Size and Possession Limits
• A general personal possession limit of a total of 30 fish including the species listed here.
• Barramundi minimum size 55 cm, possession limit of 5 except Mary River where it is 2.
• Mud Crab minimum size 13 cm across carapace for males and 14 cm for females, possession limit of 10 per person with boat limit of 30 when three or more on board.
• Black jewfish possession limit of 2.
• Spanish mackerel possession limit of 2.
• Golden snapper possession limit of 5.
• Sharks possession limit of 3 of all species with no take of sawfish, speartooth shark and northern river shark.
• Cherabin and /or redclaw combined possession limit of 30.
• Tropical rock lobster possession limit of 10 per person with boat limit of 30 when three or more on board.
• Molluscs possession limit of 10 liters in shells.
• All cod over 1.2 meters must be released unharmed.
• No take of giant clams.
• Bream, prawns, octopus, cuttlefish, squid, baitfish (mullet, whiting, garfish, pilchards, sardines, herring), sea urchins and starfish are exempt from the general possession limit.
We look forward to receiving your ideas on this important issue.
Regards


Chris Makepeace
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by BEAR »

I think the guidelines proposed are to complicated and the rules we have in place now are fine. some of the recent limits already imposed are B%$#%it and I cant help but think that there is other agenda's at play here? I dont feel what has been outlined here is in the best interest of the fish stocks or fishermen!

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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Chris Makepeace »

Bear

We haven't proposed anything and we don't have any agenda except to try and find out what rec fishers want. Better we do this ourselves than have someone in government do it to us.

Regards

Chris
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Jeno »

Chris Makepeace wrote:Bear

We haven't proposed anything and we don't have any agenda except to try and find out what rec fishers want. Better we do this ourselves than have someone in government do it to us.

Regards

Chris


Hi Chris, thanks for putting those idea's out there, I'm sure there will be a lot of heated debate generated. I will add a couple of my thoughts on just a few of the points raised in your email.

I like the idea of a five fish limit on each and all snapper species ie: 5 goldies, 5 trickies, 5 stripies etc, I think that is a good start because I have seen many people get their limit of 5 goldies and then bring home 20 plus trickies, that is not sustainable and it is just greedy IMO. I think a limit of only 2 longtail tuna is pretty silly and 5 per person would be more appropriate, anyway they are not that easy to catch around Darwin so not too many people take more than 2 or 3.

What I do want to ask you is why is there never any talk about limiting the number of new charter operators at a given location? It is now the charter operators who are accessing the more remote offshore reefs on other fishing locations and they can take considerable numbers of fish, so why is that topic never in any of these conversations?

Anyway just some of my thoughts, I understand that not everyone will agree with me but hopefully in the end we have a sustainable fishery and my kids will be able to take their children fishing just like I am taking them.

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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Ernie »

This will indeed cause some heated debate :evil: but the best thing in my view would be to keep it simple,
Drop the bag limit to 20 mixed per person and 60 max per boat including the managed species and leave the rest alone :mrgreen:
Maybe even a sperate bag limit for Darwin Harbour of 10 fish per person and 30 per boat??
But which invisible police are going to enforce it??????
Need to plan for the future and leave something for our kids, like it or not it will happen,so we may aswell have a say in it. Fish for the future :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Fishing pressure is only going to increase more & more
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Matt Flynn »

Good one Ernie, I like a super simple approach too - perhaps possession of 10kg of fillets in rivers and 20kg at sea, per person, and that's it.

Plus size limits on the icon fish. Plus rules for crabs and crays etc.

It's either that or you end up with endless and ever-changing sizes and bag limits.

Also, no limit on bream, mullet, herring, squid etc.
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by dirtyruiz »

I agree with Ernie and Jeno, keep it simple and do something about the charter operators who hammer areas then move on to more remote areas and hammer them...
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by ronje »

Hi
Looks like we now have a reversal of roles.

Instead of reacting to Govt initiatives we now have FANT trying to set the agenda.

Not a bad idea considering the way Govt initiatives have been put up in the past. And should be continued.

But ya gotta think seriously about the timing of this. Not a bad red herring from the rego issue.

Ronj
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by 2rods »

ronje wrote:Hi
Looks like we now have a reversal of roles.

Instead of reacting to Govt initiatives we now have FANT trying to set the agenda.

Not a bad idea considering the way Govt initiatives have been put up in the past. And should be continued.

But ya gotta think seriously about the timing of this. Not a bad red herring from the rego issue.

Ronj



This stuff has been around for a while Ron but there is no point putting it out there when everyone is up in arms over rego issues or it would not get the attention that it needs....

It should be remembered that all AFANT is after are your ideas .. otherwise they will only have input from the 12 or so committee members (like me :naughty: )

I have some strong views on the charter issue and on changes to bag limits but they are only my views and AFANT want everyones view..
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Rug »

What ever is decided, it has to be practical to inforce.

Out of curiosity, does the NTG have legislational jusistiction over bag limits in Kakadu or does it also come under federal park managment?

Is this also being treated as a proactive response to the marine parks issue?
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by max »

Hmmm yes charter boats so far a protected species,why? :?
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by Chris Makepeace »

Hi Rug

Kakdu comes under federal Gov't but they generally assume the same fishing regs as NT. There are some specific regs in Kakadu such as those covering bait, no cast nets, no crab pts and so on.

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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by maxpower »

I think the barra stocks need to be protected a bit better especially on the Daly River and similar places that have high pressure. I think I would prefer 5 fish per boat than per person. 5 barra is a decent feed even amongst 4 people. I do also like the idea of a maximum size limit.

I think the bag limit in SA for snapper works well. If I remember correctly it's 5 fish over 60cm and 15 between 38-60cm per boat. Just a thought.

Im not really sure about other species but if needs to be looked at then so be it. Charters should operate with boat limits too. We dont want our waters here to end up flogged like other capital cities.
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by ghound »

I think the most important thing is to make the Barra rules uniform everywhere. I like a two fish per person limit and 5 per boat and i would like to see a 50cm to 80cm slot. The snapper rules are a little less simple. I would rather see a total limit on all reef fish of 5 per person or twenty per boat no matter what king of fish it ie a boat of 4 people go out and catch 2 trout 3 red emps five snapper six trickies and four cod thats their limit. if they chose to keep 20 snapper that fine too. Its all good to change the rules but I have been fishing here for all my life and am still yet to have anyone check my catch. i also think the charter boats are a huge problem and if the don't sort that out first its all a waste of time anyway.
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Re: AFANT Discussion Paper on Possession and Size Limits

Post by fishfanatic »

Yes keep it simple and as much consistency as possible..dont want fishing to become a maths assignment like in other states :(

My feeling on the barra regulations are that the barra in the NT probably is one of the least likely to need anymore draconian protection (might be wrong?). Lets face it many more people go bluewater fishing than barra fishing and out of those blue water fishos there would certainly be a larger proportion that would bag out, though it would be rarer than most people think.
To bag out with barra on other hand would seem much harder as they are a notoriously fickle fish turning off at weather changes etc. I know there are numerous people on this site that may easily reach their barra limits due to their fishing skills but lets face it in the context of the overall fishery they would be in the minority.

To really know what numbers of fish we are talking about a survey would be a practical tool. I know from my experience it is not very common to bag out, most of the time you come back with 1-5 fish, sometimes :( with bugga all.
I would hate to see too many limits being imposed because of a small group of either talented fishos or fishos that have access to larger boats enabling them to get to remote areas and get the bigger fish/bag out.

We have to be careful not to appear too willing to self impose regulations on our selves. I am not proposing waiting until the Govt starts threatening fishing limits but it can be a fine line.
A good information/public awareness campaign would be an advantage to try to get through to fishos more of the conservation message. As someone already said with all these proposed limits which imaginary Police force will enforce these rules??

I guess at this point I have mixed feelings, :? will give it some more thought....a lot there...
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