North Australian FISH FINDER TM forums

This video link was just emailed in. It was taken out past the Daly mouth. I hope this sort of waste doesn't happen too often, just one metre barra is worth a fortune to the recreational fishing industry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LCZELK4st0

They are just there own worst enemys these guys, fair dinkum. Why the nearby boat is allowed to particapate in the industry I cant fathom. Wouldnt the few legitament operators want this grub out of it as well.

In saying that are there any legitimet operators out there any more? I know two boats personally that GI poaching every trip. They have both been done so many times and keep on going. At the end of the day when they do this cr.p and take all the big girls it's killing Their future in money making isn't it. They will only have themselves to Blame.

That commercial operator IS a legitimate pro who has a very good reputation! He usually uses a fraction amount of net hes entitled to use and doesnt poach! Those fish on the beach will be picked up and processed and will be fine, -they have only been out of the water a short time-in the cool of the morning and wont be wasted. Blokes just trying to make a living.

seano wrote:That commercial operator IS a legitimate pro who has a very good reputation! He usually uses a fraction amount of net hes entitled to use and doesnt poach! Those fish on the beach will be picked up and processed and will be fine, -they have only been out of the water a short time-in the cool of the morning and wont be wasted. Blokes just trying to make a living.

Sorry Seano but I simply dont accept this as good practice, and it would surprise me if the majority do either. Those fish are dead and laying in the cool morning (NT) sun, how long would you leave your fish in the NT sun or the night for that matter dead not on ice they need to get real and stop shiteing in there own nests.
If he is one of the legitament ones and has a good rep than the caption is correct. there is no future in wild caught barra commecially, get them right out of it (not into another industry) and just sell farmed Barra.
To be fair I havent seen the process on these boats, but I would guess at it that they are just filleted hot and frozen, no ice or brine prior to filleting bring em down quick. It is a very sad look indead if they are the good guys.
Guess we will just have to disagree on this one OK.

All fish are put in a brine prior to filleting and freezing. BTW it is better to let fish go into rigor before brining .I NEVER place a fish on ice immediately after capture but leave it in a kill box or on the bank for a while first . Most Pros do the right thing ,as dont most amatuers but theres bad eggs every where.

I know little of the barra treatment system but I can’t see an abattoir being permitted to kill an animal and leave it outside for a while before boning it out.
They all kill and chill and then after a few days it goes to be boned.
Maybe fish are different and their flesh won’t break down in the sun? I cant see it

It is common practice for fish to sit out in the sun for reasonable long periods before being processed. Even when pulled out of a net in the water it has been dead for any thing up to three hours plus the time it takes to be processed. You dont hear too many complaints about the quility of wild NT barra so im not sure that you can accuse them of bad practices. If the fish were later found floating dead because they were left too long and thrown away then it would be a different story.

I agree with Seano on this one and it is only because we have seen how the fishing industry works for our selves. I hate poaching because it affects my amature fishing but the guys fishing in legit areas are only making a living IMHO. You could say that they should sit with the net and pull fish as they are caught but I know you would get over it real quick and when you work your arse off all day you would be looking for some sleep the same as the people on that boat probably are. The catch is still ok as long as they dont leave it too long.

cuddlescooper wrote:It is common practice for fish to sit out in the sun for reasonable long periods before being processed. Even when pulled out of a net in the water it has been dead for any thing up to three hours plus the time it takes to be processed. You dont hear too many complaints about the quility of wild NT barra so im not sure that you can accuse them of bad practices. If the fish were later found floating dead because they were left too long and thrown away then it would be a different story.

I agree with Seano on this one and it is only because we have seen how the fishing industry works for our selves. I hate poaching because it affects my amature fishing but the guys fishing in legit areas are only making a living IMHO. You could say that they should sit with the net and pull fish as they are caught but I know you would get over it real quick and when you work your arse off all day you would be looking for some sleep the same as the people on that boat probably are. The catch is still ok as long as they dont leave it too long.

I dont really want to start any raging auguments as the video about speaks for itself, Im assuming that why Matt put it up. Other than the proximity of the fisher to their gear it wouldnt seem that any laws are being challanged. The legeslative requirements in relation to the proximity of the fisher to their gear has been covered by RONJE on this forum in the last few days. If they are over that part of the legeslation and cocider it to onerous then get out of the industry, it is not optional it is law.

I have held a master fishermans licence in QLD for a time, sat for and passed 10 or so exams to get it, and was in the line fishery subsequently so have a pretty good idea on handling seafood as well. The text book for the seafood handling exam reads, that for every 30 minutes a fish remains out of ice after capture a day is lost off its shelf life. Thats just what they teach it may be wrong, and afew hours out of the water and then one or two in the sun might do em good.
Anyway it is a free country and we are all allowed an opinion, and allowed to choose which side of the fence we sit on, lets work it out over a beer or to somtime.

You should not put any fresh kill straight on chill,we were taught to leave it up to 2 hours here in the territory before chilling
Especially something that has put up a vigorous fight before being killed as it's core temp can be quiet high and rapid cooling of the outside traps that heat in and can often send the product off
You must remember that the meat is sterile until such time as you contaminate it by putting a knife into it and letting the bugs in

No suggestion that these guys were poaching or otherwise doing illegal acts, the point of the video was that the fish were left high and dry. Even if it is a nice cool morning I can't see it being good practise as you can not release bycatch alive when it is dead. I'm aware it is a difficult and imperfect industry and these operators may well be among the good guys, but the people who shot the video weren't too happy to see it.

Good point about the bycatch...

shaggs wrote:You should not put any fresh kill straight on chill,we were taught to leave it up to 2 hours here in the territory before chilling
Especially something that has put up a vigorous fight before being killed as it's core temp can be quiet high and rapid cooling of the outside traps that heat in and can often send the product off
You must remember that the meat is sterile until such time as you contaminate it by putting a knife into it and letting the bugs in

Interesting points raised Shaggs, this veiw is borne out in proffessional catering doctrines I am told by my wife so could logically be applied to fisheries issues. Very intersting indeed how two different jurestictions are promoting seemingly opposite veiwpoints to members.Different but probably both true to some extent, like most things.

Somwhere wrapped up in the issue could be the answer to a question that we have pondered on our travels and the last 10 years up here. For the local market at least very little effort seems to be put into landing seafood fresh on ice, generally there seems to be a tendency to process on water and freeze at sea landing frozen product. Interstate the opposite is true unusual to land frozen product, all fresh on ice. We used to easily kept gutted and eventually guts in fish 7 days on melting ice before the wholsaler (Morgans Seafood) took them, I can report they were highly sought after by the wholesaler like no others, they would ring us looking for fish and we would get top money as a standard rate no mater how many fish were on the market, always the same, not so for the restof the sellers. It also might explain the look of the non frozen whole fish that a on display in seafood outlets locally, if I go in to get some oysters or such I am stunned by the condition of the window displays, truly shocking by comparison to say Morgans or Sams in Brisbane, or the Sydney fish market. Im not having a go here and this is not a negative thing against NT its just different way to do things but the different proticol on the treatment might be some explanation. The worst seafood I have ever seen or smelt fullstop was on the fishamans whalf precinct in San Francisco last year on our USA trip, it was putrid, we are spoilt up here thats for sure.

Unfortunatly none of the above gives rise to a softening of the postion that the case in question is not a fair go, and the fish seen to be treated with utter contempt really, and while I kill at least my share they deserve a bit better than what is seen on that video.

The qustion everybody is avoiding is if it took that many minutes to orbit the area in a chopper how could they have been within the prescribed proximity to the gear and so be able as Matt points out deal with the bycatch. The question can never be answered of course as nothing can be proven but it can be asked.

Here endeth the lecture I promise, over to you mabey Ronge, Im done.

Hi

Here's my take.

Science doesn't share Shaggs view about the flesh being sterile and a knife "letting in the bugs".

With fish, "bugs" are already present and a knife simply allows more bugs in.

The problem with fish is temperature control of the flesh. One of the results of poor temperature control is the formation of histamine which causes all the trouble for consumption.

The Commonwealth Govts Food Standard Code is referred to via the NT Food Act relating to safe handling of food. One section of the Code deals specifically with fish products.

Its a very small section and simply sets a max level of 200mg of Histamine per kg of product.

The relevant obligation of a pro fisherman under the NT Fisheries legislation revolves around seling unsafe product or product likely to be unsafe.

The Fisheries Act and Regulations deals with some basic aspects of safe handling practices and processes to minimise the formation of histamine.

As a catch-all, a maximum limit is set for histamine via the Food Code.

As we go up in temperatures above 25 degrees C, histamine forms more rapidly.

But we're not talking minutes. We're talhing hours.

So a couple of hours on the beach is a trade-off between increasing histamine levels and fisherman convenience.

But the histamine level doesn't reduce by refrigeration. It remains at the level it reached when refrigeration stopped it. When thawed, the histamine production starts again.

Basically, the longer its left on the beach, the less safe shelf life it has.

The govt can have a proscribed process that a fisherman has to follow rigidly to ensure safe product. There are all sorts of difficult enforcement issues there.

Or u can set some basic proscribed process that are easily enforceable ( like no cracks in processing surfaces for Shagg's bugs to hide in and limits on refrigeration devices etc) and use a max histamine limit requirement as outcome insurance.

Wonder how many wholesalers test for histamine levels. That'd be an interesting read.

I guess that one day with consumer demands for more and more info about what they're eating, histamine levels in fish product packaging laws will come about.

Then u won't see many fish high and dry on a beach.

The matter of dead protected by-catch is a pretty straightforward enforcement issue. The term immediate release is prominent in those bits of legislation.

Its a pretty emotive issue with dead fish in nets etc but the fisho only has to satisfy the terms of his licence not soothe our troubled emotions.

regards
Ronj

Plus you might even see some fresh not frozen barra for sale Ronge.
Sorry couldnt help it.