North Australian FISH FINDER TM forums

The greatest regulator of temperature on Earth is the atmosphere. Without atmosphere temperatures would be similar to that of the moon. The moon hits 120C odd degrees on the light side and minus 150C odd on the dark side.

You cannot alter the composition of the atmosphere without having some affect on temperature.

Of course the earth is undergoing climate change. Nobody that I know disputes that.

The arguing point is what the cause is.

I don't believe for 1 minute that its caused by man.

I believe that the greatest change is caused by changing of earth's obliquity (lean of the earth's axis) over a 41,000 year cycle exacerbated by changes in earth's precession (wobble) over a 25,000 year cycle.

That 2nd link of Matt's summed it up. Numerous examples of changes and they're real alright.

That was then followed it up with a bald statement that its all caused by man made sources.

And therein lies the problem of scientific credibility which has been trashed. Never to be trusted again.

The science is NOT settled at all.

The argument here is not really about what causes climate change.

At this stage that's irrelevant.

Causes of climate change were simply justifiers in the government's (both sides when in power) to increase taxes.

The tax money was/is needed to placate the greens and other left-leaning moderates whose support was needed to firstly get into power then subsequently to stay there.

Gillard's carbon tax was the catalyst ( remember: "There'll be no carbon tax under a Govt I lead" ).

That was a failure and got dumped but there remained the Greens who still needed somebody to pay for their aspirations.

Up came the reforms for power generation in Aus with the promise of a big fat new tax (this time one of Abbots) but an indirect one so that someone else would get the blame and NOT the Govt of the day.

Placate the Greens by having an aspiring renewables % policy. The % aimed for depended upon which bunch wanted to form government the most.

And the tax???

Each generating body has to pay a generating tax with the amount depending upon how much power they generate. But wash your mouth out with soap if you call that a tax! Its not. The generating bodies are simply buying " Licences to Generate" in the form of a Licence Certificate. Its not a tax! No way!

And how much do these certificates cost? Currently about $80 each per unit of power.

And how many will be needed to be bought by the generating companies this coming year to generate enough power to keep the lights on?

About 26 million! Maybe 30 million. Jeez $80 x 26 million! = $2 billion. $2,000,000,000. Look at the zeros.

And who will the generating bodies need to buy these "certificates" from? The Govt of course. But its not a new tax! Its those greedy electricity generating companies! Just ask Friedenberg, Turnbull, Morrison and Kormann.

Out of the kindness of their hearts the generating companies have volunteered to absorb that extra amount haven't they?

In a pigs eye! It goes straight onto everybody's electricity account and THAT'S why the cost of electricity has gone through the roof.

The cost of generating hasn't actually gone up.

There's been a big new fat tax imposed to placate the Greens, other left leaners and renewable energy companies hungry for a piece of the easy money.

And who is putting up the money for this mad scramble?

Electricity consumers. You and I via this new electricity tax.

And the alternative Govt? They love the Greens even more than stupid left-wing Malcom and want even higher renewables % putting our electricity accounts higher and higher again!!

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.

No wonder people are deserting the 2 major parties and looking for alternatives to form a least a party of influence if not one big enough to form government in its own right.

Bang on about the taxes, oops, I mean, levies, oops, I mean license certificates Ronje.

https://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_t ... e_ice_loss

https://www.ted.com/talks/james_hansen_ ... transcript

+1 Ronje

Any body heard how Tim Flannery is doing lately since the droughts broke after his panic policy sell for gov allowed him to grubber into australian of the year. The desalination hoax is another level tax gone west essentially.

Unfortunately, skeptics will jump on quirks that suggest climate change isn't happening, or predictions that don't pan out.

But globally, things have been moving within or faster than the science based predictions.

Some of the more extreme claims have unfortunately just fuelled skepticism.

I am anti-tax as I reckon guvs have got enough revenue to do their job ( https://www.triplejunearthed.com/jukebo ... ck/6006196 ) but there must be a tax or cost on carbon if this problem is to be managed. It has to be introduced across the world or countries that don't cost carbon will have an unfair advantage.

The problem may not ever be solved by human management, it is politically extremely difficult, especially when so many people are skeptical. Nature will sort it out eventually, but at great cost to future generations.

Matt Flynn wrote:...but there must be a tax or cost on carbon if this problem is to be managed. It has to be introduced across the world or countries that don't cost carbon will have an unfair advantage.

This is why carbon taxes and carbon offsets will never be nothing but money grabbing rorts. And as long as we act that way the problem will get worse.

AM wrote:Any body heard how Tim Flannery is doing lately since the droughts broke after his panic policy sell for gov allowed him to grubber into australian of the year. The desalination hoax is another level tax gone west essentially.

Nice deflection Matt but the quation is still there unanswered with Flannery i will help out.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio ... ab92dadba2
From a definite skeptic even if it is changing we won't stop it so why go broke as well.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio ... ab92dadba2


Regards
Andy Myers

All good for now AM, unless you live on a low island somewhere ... http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/15/ameri ... index.html

Eventually everyone will pay, one way or another, from dealing with displaced people etc.

Nobody is saying that climate change isn't happening.

All we're arguing about is WHY its happening.

I've given what I think is the cause (and its not manmade).

There'll be other causes put up as well.

But I'm not going to sit around while a bunch of idealogical zealots hijack the debate for their own ends. A different bunch of idealogical zealots is now trying to thrust their ideas about gay marriage down my throat.

These bl..dy zealots have emerged as politically influential because the 2 major parties have lost the confidence of their party followers who are deserting in droves. So the 2 big parties are currying favour with the zealots to remain in (or get into) political power.

The ALP/Coalition have lost sight of who they are supposed to represent and are trying to be everything to however many zealot views it takes to get into office.

Then what do they do? Exactly, what Malcolm Turncoat is doing now and Bill Short-and-Curly is promising to do. Placate zealots at the expense of the mainstream communit.y

Australian politics is going to get volatile over the coming years due to Govts who pandy to minorities using mainstream policies which have negative effects on the Aus majority.

The Greens party is simply a party of zealots.

Agree the CC problem will be seen as something to be milked. But its hard to argue with 407ppm CO2 and going up fast.

So what % of the increase is Aus responsible for?

Immeasurably low. Zilch. Zero.

Yet the bl..dy zealots are happy for ALL of Aus to bankrupt themselves for no reason.

Absolute crazies. What's even crazier is that our pollies are listening. Some.

We need to pull out of the stupid Paris agreement.

Tell me about how bad 407ppm and rising actually is and what portion is Aus contributing?

Matt Flynn wrote:Agree the CC problem will be seen as something to be milked. But its hard to argue with 407ppm CO2 and going up fast.

Is that reading taken beside the chimney down cygnet way.