New leader/mailine knot

ronje
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New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Hello all

I'm always experimenting/looking for new ways/ testing traditional methods etc etc.

The subject of mainline to leader knots has ended up as a bug-bear as I kept running out of fingers and toes trying to tie the bl..dy things.

I usually fish with 50/60 lb leader for barra and 80lb leader for big threadfin king combined with 30lb braid.

I also use a bimini double to give the leader knot more strength.

Doubles mean bulkier knots.

And I've tried many different traditional knots. Albright, FG etc etc and variations in between.

Attached is a diagram (as best that I could draw it) of a knot that I've ended up using.

Its a home invention and a degree of experimentation was required to get it right.

I've been using it exclusively for about 12 months testing it since making the last refinement.

Its simple, small and very strong. Less than 5mm long and about 1.5mm diam.

I've been snagged and lost lures when there was no alternative to simply breaking the line.

When I did break the line, the break was ALWAYS on the single 30lb braid NOT at the leader end of the bimini double (the leader knot). In addition, I've never had this knot let go with a fish on.

The knot is bl..dy strong, small, simple and easily runs through the rod guides.

For those who like to experiment or are sick of complications with knots, try it. You won't be disappointed.

Also, I'd be interested in your thoughts etc.
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Regards
Ronje
NinjaFish
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

Nearly the same as mine.
I do 10 reverse winds back over the mono x 2 and the braid then 3 lockers over the mono x 1 and the braid.
As long as the braid is coiled against itself and not over the top of itself(messy winding) then it won’t cut itself off under tension. Fine for towing the boat and big sharks etc and quick to tie. Just remember to kink the mono first and moisten then slide and pull tight.

I reckon some think the knots have undone when the braid has actually cut itself off!
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by jersy »

Will give this one a go ronje. Always up for new tricks.
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ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Its related to a sheet bend except it uses 6 wraps PLUS the lock wrap on one leg of the leader (most important).

I've experimented with 2 lock wraps but found it harder to snug the knot up tight to the end of the leader loop.
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Did you try this one?
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Its not a modified Albright. The knot that it is derived from has been around since the days of the first use of sails.

Never mind a few mozzies and the dark, knots on sailing ships had to be easy/simple/quick to tie and untie(especially at night and in adverse weather) and had to be reliable. And they weren't called knots.

A lot of fishing knots derive from maritime "bends" which proved successful since sailing ships first took to the water. Lives depended on them. Nobody wanted to lose a sail at the wrong time so the knots had to be good.

Of more recent times, fishermen have the ability to modify these tried and true working knots to suit their own purposes.

An Albright (including variations) is a derivative of a ………………… (what sort of sailing knot do you think)?

An FG knot comes from what? A Chinese finger trap that has been around since 600 years BC. So its stood the test of time OK. Its also known as a handcuff knot. Nothing new but it was designed as a toy.

But its a bugger to tie properly in daylight let alone the dark.

If you were thinking problem solving you'd have changed the rod tip guide to a decoy style a long time ago (no inserts to be blown out) then you wouldn't have been locked in to a choice of using supposedly thin knots.

Irrespective of the misleading name, there's nothing slim about a knot where a 50/60/or 80 lb leader needs to have a double grannie knot as a starting point.

what % breaking strain on what braid leader combo are you getting with this knot variation out of curiosity?


Haven't attempted to measure it. Only person that I know about who claims to be able to measure line strengths and knots accurately is a guy called Paulus down south with all the gizzmos to do it.

Just caught fish with it without it letting go so works for me.

Haven't had a guide insert knocked out either. The rods that I make myself all have decoy guides but the bought ones have tips with inserts.

Micro-guides as used by many US bass fishermen create problems with inserts over here because of the bigger fish and heavier leaders (therefore bulkier knots) that we fish for.

I changed all the micro-guides on 2 bass Carrot sticks I got from the US to decoy titanium guides (indestructible) for those reasons.

Each to his/her own.
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Ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

I’ll give it a crack Ron and let you know how I go with yours and will retry the Slim Beauty again to see what runs through the guides better on my Barra rod. My leader occasionally grabs hard in the top guide and I reckon a modified cutting tool for trimming the leader would be a big seller. Much like grinding down the side-cutters to clean cut zip-ties so they don’t slice you to bits.
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Use nail clippers to trim leader (smaller the better). I carry 2-3 pairs in my tackle box 'cos I always lose them.

They're small, very sharp and cheap as …. Easily cut thru leader.

You can cut the leader as close as you like to the knot with small clippers plus angle the cut so that the leader doesn't present a vertical front to the guides you want it to pass through.

An angled/sloping cut may avoid the series of half and double half hitches to smooth the way for a knot with a blunt leader face to pass through the guide with high velocity (on a cast).

The FG has half hitches to reduce guide banging. Small nail clippers with angled cuts might be useful to reduce the overall length of an FG knot by doing away with the second lot of half hitches.
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Ronje
NinjaFish
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

Call me a bit slow if you need to, but can you draw a pic of your locking loop for your knot?
Or is it exactly as per your diagram?
A clove hitch or (an FG moment) will slide just as well but lockers are just as paramount as the windings are.
Just playing with it at the moment with a beer or two. :)
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Exactly as per the diagram.

Loop No. 6 only goes around 1 leg of the leader not both like the first 5 (which go around both legs).

The 7th loop goes around both legs of the leader and then back out in opposite direction to the first entry of the mainline.

Make sure you snug the knot up bit by bit under tension to ensure that it all grips tightly and evenly.


Its a small knot.
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Ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Cleanup time.

For Flicken…

Earlier I referred to "Decoy" titanium rod tip guides having no inserts to be blown out. I should have said "Recoil" titanium tip guides. Doesn't matter how they're treated or squashed/deformed they spring back to their original shape.


No more blown out guide inserts.
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http://www.rec.com/products/recoil.html


A little 10-17lb rod I made up with recoil guides right through.
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and.... The knot from which the Albright is derived is.... a "Sheet Bend". "Sheet" meaning sail and "Bend" meaning knot. A sail knot.


The knot from which the "Sara" knot is derived is called.. A locked double sheet bend. A sail knot but doubled AND locked for extra strength.


For NinjaFish......

A blown-up view of the locking loop.
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Ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

Seems to be working fine on the veranda and it’s now quicker to tie than the one I use.
Have to go down to some cold country with the chook so it’ll be a couple of weeks before I can test it out on some good head shaking.

I have seen those guides before. Titanium or not, are they maintenance free?
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by jeffish »

I tied one this morning , actually tied a few till I came up with what looks right .
Like it , just have to test it out on the fish :mrgreen:

thanks for effort Ronje
ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Titanium or not, are they maintenance free?

Yep. Sure are. Nothing to maintain. Simply made from 1 continuous length of titanium wire. No joins or tight tolerance loops for inserts to fall out of if the guide flexes (which it will) under pressure.

Twist them into whatever shape you like. They just immediately spring back to their original shape.

I swear by them. In the case of these guides you get what you pay for and that means not having to worry about knocked out or cracked insets rendering an otherwise perfectly good rod useless while on a fishing outing.

https://www.mudhole.com/RSG-Recoil-Stri ... custcol1=1

I get them from a Gold Coast retailer.

I use No 6 double coil tips ( 4.5mm inside diam) and the max I use as 1st guide from the casting reel is a No 10 (8mm). Double footed guides.

Also Recoil guides for spinning rigs. Double or single foot.

I think that you can class rod guides in the same category as lures. Bright and colourful inserts seem to attract anglers.


Jeffish........Just make sure that you pull it up tight. Using a double braidline means that you have a loop as a tag to pull the knot tight before cutting it off. You can put as many loops on the bent-over leader as you like just as long as you make sure that the lock loop is the 2nd last one.
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Ronje
NinjaFish
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

Righto....

Sheer boredom does this to a person so I thought I’d put some testing science behind this - concerning my comment earlier that braid will cut itself off if it runs over itself. Anyway, a few pics of the ‘Sara’ & a few of some sort of Albright (I think) that I’ve been using.

Both tied and pulled neatly then tied to the Bar (many times) with Beer fridge on top. Drag wound right up steadily until it maxed out and..... breaking strain?, the Albright won by about half a step with about 100kg of human dynamics behind it.

Saragosa SW6000, 55lb Schneider & 30lb Fins or Suffix spooled from a reputable store in town used for this test.

I’m pretty certain judging by the evidence that the ‘loop over the top from the start of the ‘Sara’ knot may have cut through itself.

Just responding to thoughts as initially asked :)

Maybe a different braid will act differently.
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