New leader/mailine knot

ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

I don't think a different braid would make any difference.

However, I always use a double on the mainline (bimini).

When a break comes (only on snags that I've experienced to date), the break is always above the bimini.

Inclined to try that?

You'd certainly take out the award for the neatest knot at any competition.


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Ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

‘However, I always use a double on the mainline (Bimini)’

I missed that point with this knot as I thought you were trying to make it smaller.
I’ll try that. :D
ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Yep. Sure. An Albright using doubled line braid is pretty bulky. Much more so than the Sara knot even when doubled line used. Smaller knot w/out losing strength was the purpose. Think you're right about braid over braid being potential for cutting but using double braid line lessens the impact (I think).

Interesting to see where the break point is then.

Bit of historical stuff for you.

Years ago I did a test on leader stretch using same lengths of test leader, a very sold anchor point, a set of scales, a means of measuring the stretch and a winding mechanism for increasing pull.

A careful watch on the scales for pull weight gave a pretty indication of the load at failure.

Used to frighten the hell out of me when a leader suddenly broke even though I was expecting it.

Wasn't as accurate I guess when compared to Paulus's gear but the relativities between relative strength of leaders of same ratings (or multistrand leaders) was ok. A lot of guys in this nech of the woods were playing around with multistrand leaders at the time. U know. 3 strands of 30lb leader supposedly having more strength that 80 lb Jinkai etc etc.


Was all the rage at that stage (multistrand leaders). Tests put that one to bed.

Putting 40 or more pounds of straight pull on a leader wasn't easy. No reel could (can't even now) do it and neither could bare hands. Pull from a barra can't either no matter how big it is.

Full drag on the types of reels we use won't pull 40 lbs. The line will bury into the other windings well before that. The drag washers will also let go.

To get pull of that magnitude, I had to use a type of large drum windlass that I improvised for the occasion.

Reels generally have all given up the ghost on drag (straight pull) by 10 - 15 kg anyway. Lot less for most modern day baitcasters.

Might resurrect the test for knots on leader/braid. Flicken did ask about it.

Leaders.xls
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Ronje
NinjaFish
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by NinjaFish »

As I don’t use a Bimini often or never on Barra I had to go and check on it again with this fast fella.

https://youtu.be/xQK52P5ii04

Same test again, same amount of tiles counted across the floor, maybe one less beer! and the single busted right above the Bimini knot, the double held and put it up that half step stronger. Interesting that you can see the main line that enters the leader first come back over itself (cutting point) so a double does help on this knot.

Maybe a few more lockers on the Bimini are in order but I’m just going to put that down to just being 30lb as I can’t see that twist cutting itself. I should also mention I felt the Bimini jump or tighten so a bit of practice for me on that one.

I’ve still got some old Jinkai leader in the boat and the deckie won’t touch it because its not in a shiny new wrapper. :?
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al57
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by al57 »

doubles are ok in a few situations but the slim beauty knot straight to leader now is my only knot i use in all situations that i fish ,i have landed small black marlin,big barra ,huge bull shark on barra gear on this knot .it will do me for life ,some of these new knots are rediculously hard to tie in a boat .
ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Some sure hard to tie in a boat particularly at night or in wind.

You only use doubles in some circumstances, Al? Not all the time?

The purpose here was to create a smaller and simpler knot for heavier rigs without reducing the strength.

I still have a chuckle about the slim beauty. Maybe it should be renamed to "not-so-slim" beauty when tied to 50lb or bigger leader.

Heard some comment about hard fluro and soft fluro the other day.

Hard fluro no good as it isn't easy to get knots to hold. Soft fluro no good as it frays easily.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. So shouldn't use fluro apparently.

I think that Jinkai does the same thing. Hard and softer.

With harder leader material, knots are bulkier so smaller without losing strength is again the way forward, I believe. THAT'S why I started mucking around with the Sara knot.

Moody puts up some good stuff doesn't he, Ninja. Lots of practical tips, simple explanations. Excellent marketing.

Is there a reason that you don't use a double on barra? A double would strengthen any knot, I reckon.

I WILL run some of these knots through their paces with my citizen science arrangements. Let you know but it will take a little while. My results won't be as exact as Paulus's but I'll be able to rank them against each other.
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Ronje
al57
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by al57 »

i used to use a double all the time but was sick of it releasing in strong winds and getting hooked on the end of the rod between the double and the leader causing either a break off or bend eyelet .the slim i find ties the best with jinki leaders even up to 60lb i have no probs .i have also had all end eyelets and tips made larger on my rods to help with the release and less stress of any knot that is cast a 1000 times during a session .i can get lazy and not retie after a few hours too
ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Went out in Fitzroy this afternoon with grandson.

Fish....3 Us....0

Got 3 strikes. Blown away 3 times. Lost 3 lures.

Took barra gear only (2 x baitcasters). Left heavier king gear at home as we weren't looking for king and mostly we only get 1m to 1.1m up in town anyway. But not today, bugger it.

Guess what we came up against? BIG threadfin king in town reach (really big).

Used the Sara knot on bimini doubles. Both big king broke the single line (30lb and 40lb braid respectively) ABOVE the bimini. So the knots held ok. I saw my king and put her in the 1.4 - 1.5 m class. She was accompanied by a second one which swam beside her.

A third one out of that same school hit the grandson on a G&R classic lure on next cast while I was re-rigging. Same result for him so all the fish in that school would have been similar size.

Fought the last strike for 1 hour for 2 km down the river. Managed to weave in and out between 3 crabpots. Following the fish rather than manoeuvring him. Had to back-track twice around 2 more crabpot floats where I tried to zig when I should have zagged.

It got me on the 3rd crabpot float at 2 km mark. Broke line doubled around the float rope. I just couldn't stop the thing. Never sighted whatever it was but grandson had a great time. He loved having to drive the boat while granddad tried to sort out the fish.

Good experience for him with 2 blow-away strikes today after being used to catching small barra up to 63cm over the last week.

Funny how he wants to front up tomorrow again. Same place but good to hear him asking me about state of tide. He's learning.
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Ronje
al57
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by al57 »

what a bummer great session even if nothing was landed ,the bl..dy things seem to find whatever they can to wrap around
ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

Went back with grandson again Sat arvo. Geez he's learning quickly. Hooked up again.

Changed tactics this time getting ahead of fish to use tidal run to our advantage. Lachie manoeuvred the boat. 20 mins later got the fish to the side of the boat. It turned out to be an eagle ray of about 1.2m across.

Odds are that it was a ray yesterday as well.

Got a sounder screen shot of Stingray Alley. Hundreds of the things.

It was only when we released the ray that we noticed that we were being watched by a big croc sitting quietly on the mud bank about 30m away. He was over 4m long and gradually slide into water as we drifted closer. We moved a lot faster than that bl..dy croc at that point.

Don't mind when I can see them but don't like it when they submerge near the boat.

We were at the Lakes Ck meatworks stretch of the river just downstream from Devil's Elbow. Workers were moving around inside the meatworks security fence and the croc would have been about 25 m from them but they wouldn't have seen him for the mangroves.

This croc has been around for quite a few years and is named Tick Tock. Matter of time before something happens was the reason for the name (clock's ticking). Never heard of him being aggressive but that breeds complacency.

Also saw the croc that lives in the elbow at Devil's Elbow swimming around towards the creek mouths. He's about 3.8m. Looked over at the creek mouth he was swimming towards to see 2 teenagers standing in mud (up to shins) fishing away oblivious to approaching croc. Don't know how they got there as there's no access except 200 - 300m of mangroves or walk through mud along bank for about 200m.


Went over to them and advised them of the approaching croc and it'd better to decamp quickly. 20 minutes later I saw them still there. Another passing boat detoured over to them and suggested the same thing more forcefully. THEN they left. Saw croc about 30 mins later at the mouth of the creek. He lives in the creek they were fishing in standing in mud up to their shins (they'd have been stuck if they had to move quickly).

That makes 5 crocs ranging from 2m to just over 4m that live in the town reach section of the river. Have spoken to Environment Dept about moving the 2 bigger ones. They reluctant as no aggression displayed.
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Ronje
ronje
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Re: New leader/mailine knot

Post by ronje »

This is how to test out your knots. Spotted eagle rays. 42 shadows in this screenshot alone.

They're everywhere in that particular section of river at moment.

You get one of these up to the boat and there's nothing wrong with your knots.
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