The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

NinjaFish
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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by NinjaFish » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:53 pm

This is getting very interesting...

I would assume that there are so many variables on the conditions and taking into account rivers, creeks versus estuaries etc and, at different times...

The first pic of Shady I posted, you could have cast Jeff's discount card in. It was filthy but no matter what you cast, you hooked up. I know Barra are more voracious in the build up/breeding/run off season and any rushing (local) water would be an attraction to them - if you were local and only had a pond to swim in.

Harbour Arms with big current/wind/heat etc, I believe are a different story all together up here.

I figure that if I were a soft snack Mullet I would not be hanging on the edges or in the turbulence of windy water (shallows) - it's hard enough getting beat up against the rocks or the bank before you get eaten I'd imagine and I've never hooked up in those conditions so I just go trolling out from the edges a bit where I suspect the bait retreats to - as rough as they can handle and in fear!

I'm pretty confident in saying if it's windy and choppy you just have to fish deeper water where the bait move to from the rough edges, at least in the shallows of Darwin Harbour arms.

In saying all that, I had a small Barra grab the end of my finger one night when I reached over the transom to rinse my fingers. I jumped in fright and the bow waves - at least 20 of, departed from the back of the boat at great speed.

The clue... they were attracted to the trickle of the live bait tank in dead silence while we had livies strategically positioned for only a couple of fish!

Sneaky indeed. :fishy:



ronje
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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:00 am

Finally found proper scientific research to support the "missing link" results that I found and that Matt published. Its not an easy thing to publish backyard/citizen science research and I thank Matt for his vote of confidence in doing so.

Scientific stuff was carried out by Mayke Stomp at University of Amsterdam in 2008 and published in 2014.

The image had this caption.

The underwater light colour in (a) clear oceans, (b) coastal waters of intermediate turbidity and (c)
extremely turbid lakes. With increasing turbidity, the light spectrum is shifted towards red wavelengths.


Remember the image I showed in Matt's article with the Xs on it? And the advice to "follow the X" as the water got murkier? Here's the real scientific support for that advice.

This thread is titled "fluorescent orange..and contrast" but it's a lot more than fluro orange.

AND, we haven't even touched on contrast yet.

There'll be some more to come about contrast.
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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:56 am

A bit more info about colours underwater in dirty water.

Dirtier (higher turbidity) water means that light penetrates less and that the light that does penetrate best is red (follow the X as in previous posts).

In water that's stirred up by high tidal run, I look for areas with less run (barra like to conserve energy) which usually means on the edges of headlands, points and snags.

But especially around rock bars or rocky points.

To me those areas are shallow with dirty water and a no-brainer for a red/orange shallow diving lure. Enter gold bombers etc.

The other feature of high tidal run is that the murkier water is interspaced with patches of cleaner water. Bit like a run-off with clean/dirty colour lines but in this case spread all over the creek/river or rocky point. Multiple colour lines.

That's also a sign that a 2 colour lure is odds-on to do well (providing you pick the 2 best colours).

I went for red (dirty water) and green (for the less murky patches of water). I consider red and green as the best combinations for an all-round lure. R and G are opposites on the "colour wheel" and are perfect contrasts with each other.

The only colours that I play with now are all fluorescent. I reckon I've got the local market cornered on fluro spray paint, grey undercoat and fine steel wool.

It feels strange at times, getting stuck into $25 - $30 brand new Rapala lures with steel wool to scuff up the surface for an undercoat to stick to.

Even stranger to spray paint such a beautifully finished work of art. They are real works of art and a fashion statement but the colours are all wrong for dirty water fishing. They don't have much in the way of dirty water where they're designed (northern Europe) and what we see in Aus from Rapala are lure colours for clean water .

Here are some Rapalas that I've re-painted for dirty water use. As a painter, I'm no Rembrandt. More an impressionist like Picasso (you have to look beyond the paint job to find the real beauty).

In other words, I can't paint. I use a spray can, some masking tape and a sense of humour. I paint to attract barramundi not art lovers.

Anyhow here are some examples of red/green shallow diving Rapalas.

I've mixed up the colour patterns to avoid the traditional horizontal combinations. I reckon that horizontal patterns (which is what lure makers tend to mostly use) only gives a red or a green option depending if the fish is above or below the lure.

I've also tried a vertical stripe combination and the one that seems to cover any angle is the spiral pattern. Thinking about a spiral colour pattern to take out depth differences, it seems so obvious but I've never seen one from any of the lure makers. Always the traditional horizontal sometimes with a few vertical squiggly black or red lines.

So far I've tried the fluro R/G combination on 5 trips with 2 different friends and the results are good. 10 barra/king for me on RG (also lost a few barra) and 1 barra on a grey/white combo for 1 friend. Other friend gave up on 3rd outing and started using RG (nuclear chicken) soft plastics for 2 king. They weren't fluro plastics. He commented that he didn't want to be seen using "ugly" lures. I think he's an art lover.

Looks promising but still a little way to go yet before I call it a huge success.

Note that the fluro green is real green(not chartreuse) and the red is real red (fire engine) and not pink/orange.
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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by b-radical » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:53 pm

You really know how to get us thinking ronje. Thanks and don't stop sharing such valuable information thats for all of us :mrgreen:
Everydays a good day when your fishing

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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:52 pm

Never thought about spiral colour pattern?

You're right. Getting you guys thinking IS the aim. I'll give you the best info I can (sometimes a bit out there but always soundly based) and hope that you guys can put it together yourselves.

Got some info on contrast which is the "guts" of what this is all about.
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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Tue May 07, 2019 8:11 pm

Bit more info based on some advice I received about the effect of undercoat on painted finish.

I had been using grey undercoat and now use white.

Big difference in the finished product.

Makes a brightness difference when looking at it in usual light but only marginal in increased depth when used.

Can see a difference when hit with the old U/V torch treatment.

Those darker fluro colours (red/green) have been working well in the shallowly rocky areas in dirty/murky floodwater currently in the Fitzroy. So do the newer ones.

The red paint on both lures came from the same spray can (red fluro) even though the newer colour scheme looks like orange in the photo. It's red in real life and its just the different undercoat at work.


Incidently, did you know that the "U/V torches" are not U/V at all? They're simply plain old purple light which doesn't work as well as real u/v but is much safer.

Other pix shows my laboratory setup for measuring effects of fluro paint on waters of different turbidity/murkiness.

Tailgate of ute, dirty/clean water to provide wanted turbidity of water being tested, coloured washers being fluro one side/plain paint on other, comprehensive data recording devices (sheet of paper and biro), a stainless steel ruler (only the best) and lastly a proper murkiness scientific instrument (simple old turbidity tube).

Good example of "citizen science" at work.
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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by al57 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:42 am

great work there ron iot does get you thinking about those dirty water areas which we have heaps of here in hervey bay ,with your lures too you can get an old onion bag/material and fold it around your red base coat and and peg it tight , spray your flouro on light to get the scale effect ,airbrush does it great but i have used cans before keeping them a fair way away from lure when spraying .

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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Wed May 08, 2019 7:22 am

Thanks for the tips, Al.

Onion bags. Well there you have it. Was wondering how the scale pattern was put on. I tried it a few years ago with mosquito net. What a mess. Think I put too much on or too close or something.

My fishing friend is now absolutely convinced and has got himself an airbrush kit. Produces some wonderful works of art that Rembrandt would be proud off. Wants to paint mine for me.

I'm an innovator and prefer to experiment so don't go to those lengths.

He got a bag of lure bodies from overseas (about 100 or so). You'd swear they are Jackal Squirrels (3m depth with very tight action) and plans to paint them all.

Is going to experiment with hook sizes etc to get them to suspend. He goes outside a bit and has different colour schemes in mind for clean water.

As the water starts to clear over the next 2 months (if no more rain upstream), I'll start to move more into and beyond orange colours.

The Mary should have some nice tan/grey coloured water in it at the moment.

The problem with lure manufacturers/painters is that they haven't grasped the basics of fluorescence. They use it sparingly so that the product looks nice to a buyer.

The bottom line is that the bigger the surface area, the more easily the colour is seen especially if its fluorescent.

That's why I do the whole lure (including the bibs these days).

I tried blending the paints. Fade one into the other without having sharp changes in colour at the tape edges. That just gave a dark (but fluorescent) band at the fade area. The first coat on was acting as a darker undercoat for the last coat (hence the dark band).

The use of tape gives an abrupt colour change and if you pick the right 2 colours for max contrast with each other, then you have an object in the water with a large surface area of each colour that contrast with each other particularly at the edges.

Thus much more easily seen.

Then you can look at the second barrel of the contrast question which is "the lure colours might contrast well with each other, but how well do both contrast with the background water column colour?"

Made progress there too so have nearly got as good a grasp on things as I can with the crude but effective laboaratory tools that I have.
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Ronje

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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by al57 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:04 pm

the worse thing about painting and making lures is every where you bl..dy go your looking at materials that would go nice as a pattern on your lures ,woollies is a great place to look in the vegie section there is so many diff bags on them ,even knocked of one of the misses undies as they has a great pattern on them lol

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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Thu May 09, 2019 6:12 am

Al
, if I tried swiping the missus undies, I be accused of wearing them. At no stage would an explanation like using them as a pattern for spray painting fishing lures even get to first base.

In her case, I'd have enough material to pattern the boat (not just lures). Big heifer. Reckon I'd get about $1.20/kg at the local cattle sales.

Innovative thought though.
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Ronje

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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by al57 » Fri May 10, 2019 8:03 am

lmao,


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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by al57 » Sun May 12, 2019 10:25 am

Rons in a bit of strife if she is lol

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Re: The effects of fluorescent orange... and contrast ?

Post by ronje » Sun May 26, 2019 1:41 pm

Bit of homework if u're willing.

Look at as many videos of barra being caught on hard bodies. Take particular note of water colour and lure colour.

Tell us all if you notice anything.
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