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Jedi Seadog
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Trump

Thanks for that info Acsle and Dannett. Its a lot to digest let alone draw conclusions from for me.

Whether you call it offensive use or defensive use in counting incidents, there is the basic fact that if you have lots of guns and lots of people then you are going to have lots of incidents.

Its not the types of incidents that matter. Its the number of incidents.

US people believe that they have a constitutional right to bear arms. Whether that belief is accurate or not doesn't matter. They believe it.

The US has a major domestic problem with guns.

To effectively address that problem s firstly requires the US Govt to turn off the "supply tap" of weapons before it can start mopping up the mess.

Will that tap be turned off? No, it wont as it'll almost certainly lead to another civil war in the US.

Wife and I used to visit the US. Loved the different places we went to. LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, New Orleans, San Diego plus down into Mexico.

With each visit, we became increasingly aware of the number of personal weapons around in public places. In places that didn't have "open carry", some people used to arrange their clothing to show that they carried a weapon even if you couldn't see it. After a while it became increasingly obvious what to look for. I used to concentrate more on that than the reason for our visit.

With the increase in terrorism incidents from Sept 1991, it became riskier to travel to SE Asia and/or Europe.

However, I still considered that I was more likely to be involved in a lower level incident in the US (a one-on-one or collateral injury/death from a one-on-one if you like) than being caught up in a major terrorist incident in another part of the world. Cutta or Paris, London etc as examples. And the reason was simply the numbers of weapons on the streets that you could see just moving around in the US.

So we don't go anywhere o/seas now. Only 3rd world places we'll visit now are Tasmania or NZ.

Nothing is going to change in the US in respect of gun ownership and use. There'll be more nutters and mass shootings and all the authorities can do is try to manage the risk because its too late to get to the root cause of the problem (the number of weapons already in the community and the inability to stop the availability).

As long as they all stay over there.

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Jedi Seadog
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Trump

So if drug dealer “A” approaches drug dealer “B” with the intent to rob "B" and pulls a gun, then “B” shoots “A” I assume that is classified as a ‘defensive use’


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Jedi Seadog
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Trump

Probably one of each therefore 2 incidents for statistical purposes.

In the end, does it matter what they're classed as?

Titanic hit an iceberg in 1912. Does it really matter if it was a type 1, 2, 3 iceberg? Or a blue or white iceberg?

The lesson is that icebergs are dangerous.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Trump

nomad wrote:
So if drug dealer “A” approaches drug dealer “B” with the intent to rob "B" and pulls a gun, then “B” shoots “A” I assume that is classified as a ‘defensive use’


You would be correct in saying that. It's still a defensive use, give one was trying to rob the other. You didn't say they were doing a drug deal either you just said they're drug dealers. The only person committing the crime in this situation is the one trying to steal from the other, (and rightfully so) the other person has used a gun to defend themselves.

ronje wrote:
US people believe that they have a constitutional right to bear arms. Whether that belief is accurate or not doesn't matter. They believe it.


Should point out that it's a legal right to, and is recognised by the Supreme Court of the United States. Nearly every interpretation of the 2nd Amendment suggests this notion. I'd say it's a fairly accurate belief.

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Post Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Trump

Trump's EPA chief is quite a guy ... https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... h#comments

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Jedi Seadog
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Post Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Trump

Should point out that it's a legal right to, and is recognised by the Supreme Court of the United States. Nearly every interpretation of the 2nd Amendment suggests this notion. I'd say it's a fairly accurate belief.

The US Supreme Court narrowly held (by a 5-4 majority) that view. So it wasn't (and still isn't) a universal view. Such a result shows that even the Supreme Court has difficulty arriving at a convincing consensus.

I don't agree that "nearly every interpretation suggests the notion". There are plenty of interpretations which don't.

Article 5 of the US Constitution provides for amendment. A difficult process but it can be done if the people desire it.

Probaly too late now to attempt the exercise in respect of arms considering the practical difficulties in enforcing such a decision. Plenty hold the view that the Supreme Court could not have found any other way on practical grounds.

On the up-side, National Guard recruitment numbers might have benefited.

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