NT Fisheries Dept

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ronje
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NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

I wanted to ask NT Fisheries who apart from NT police were authorised as fisheries officers. Pretty straightforward question I thought although somebody did say "best of luck".

It turns out he was spot on!!

Ran into a problem with a DPI official on the Fisheries facebook site when I asked the question.

It went downhill quickly.

Here's a copy of what the simple question turned into.

I'll let you know what the answer actually is once Fisheries Minister Vowels sorts it out.



Dear Minister  (copy for Mr Curnow)

Here is a copy of the immediate e-mail response I received once your employee manning the Fisheries Facebook page became aware that I had asked you the same question.

12/26/2016 1:17pm

Question

Hello Can you tell me please who is authorised as Fisheries Officers in the NT? Obviously NT police are (under the Fisheries Act) but who else is? Are Rangers from the Land Councils/Trust authorised? Other NT public servants? regards



12/28/2016 9:11am

Answer

Hello Ron sorry for the late reply, All NT police officers are Fisheries Enforcement officers that is correct. But a person who is trained appropriately and has been signed off by the Director of Fisheries can have the authority of a Fisheries Inspector, so to answer to your question is yes people other then the police can be Fisheries inspectors.

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Sat 6:19am

Follow-up question
That wasn't what I asked unfortunately. I know that from the Act others can be if the Director is satisfied etc....... What I WAS asking is " Apart from police officers, what other persons (or classes of persons) are currently authorised by the Director?


No response (despite site message that the message had been seen) so 5 days later a reminder.


Wed 12:56pm

Hello Fisheries NT. Anybody home? Wouldn't mind an answer please.
Just so there is no confusion, I'll ask again. Apart from NT police officers, who in the NT are appointed as Fisheries Officers as from 1 Jan 2017?

Still no response (despite site message saying the question had been seen also) so next day Thursday (today)

10:45am
Bit like trying to get blood out of a stone.  (even an acknowledgement).  Would I be better off asking Minister Vowles?

So I did ask Minister Vowles and gave your facebook operator a copy.

Immediate response.

Unfortunately we have not been attending facebook due to holidays and personel being on leave. Unfortunately we are unable to answer any of your question unless advised by the director or minister so this is why another reason you have not had a reply. You have thought very well by asking the minister directly. He will be able to answer your questions.


So it looks like no responses on the Dept's facebook page are to be given unless authorised by the Minister or Director?  Is this true, Minister?

Was the operator's initial response approved by you or the Director?  I think not!

In addition, does everybody direct ALL of their enquiries to the Minister instead of departmental officers from now on?

I guess it must be comforting knowing that you can freely duck-shove the work that you are paid to do onto the Minister.

My response

Rubbish!!!  You already took the time to give an answer WITHOUT being advised by the Director or Minister.   Its a simple question that requires no Ministerial or Director's guidance.   Let's ask both if their approval is required for you to answer a simple question.


Answer

Sorry ron but this was the answer and it does answer your question

My response

It DOES NOT answer the question at all.  Who apart from NT police officers have been appointed as Fisheries Officers?  NT police officers are automatically fisheries officers under the Act.  Anybody else has to be specifically authorised/appointed.  So who else has been appointed/authorised?

Answer

Anyone approved by the Director who has reciveid correct training answers your question

My response

So who has been approved?  Individuals or even classes of persons.

So Minister Vowels, does this style of interaction with the public by DPI officials within your portfolio meet with your approval? 

And you, Mr Curnow?  Is your approval and guidance necessary before the Dept's facebook operator can answer a simple question?

Great publicity for the NT Department of Fisheries.

I look forward to your reply to the very simple question of who is authorised as fisheries officers in the NT apart from NT police. 


See what develops.


Regards
Ronje
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dannett
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by dannett »

Keep at them Ron.
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by Jer »

The answer to your question is one that I spent some time trying to find out myself after our discussion in the thread regarding fishing permits. I tried searching old NTG Gazettes to see if the Minister or Director had issued notice regarding the appointment of Fisheries Officers but it became too difficult so I gave up.

It's a shame it wasn't so simple to receive a useful answer from the Department's Facebook page. I can understand the Christmas period resulting in a delayed response but the response received was not of a reasonable standard.

Hopefully the Minister responds fairly quickly but then again that might be a "best of luck" situation too.
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by jeffish »

:rofl: happy hunting ronje

Might have better luck catching the Million dollar Barra
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by nomad »

Ron, you should know that the only person to get info from is THE minister. we used to get "ministerial" in a bright red folder. that meant drop everything, investigate and report back forthwith!!!!!
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

Come to think of it, it was Dannet who wished me luck.

You guys are obviously experienced with NT Fisheries and I could have used some pointers.

Anyway, lets see what happens.

That e-mail to the Minister was copied to the Fisheries Dept Director (Curnow). Plus to the person on the Facebook page. Would love to be a fly on the wall at Fisheries.

2 others on the CCd list were AFANT and the NT News. Vowels and Curnow both know who else was copied in.
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Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by jpb15 »

If you are looking to find out if a particular Person is on the list, maybe you should give them a list of Names, maybe most of them being Rangers, if you can find them, with your particular Name somewhere in the middle.
They may not answer the question directly, but sometimes enough half answers, can help.
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STANDY
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by STANDY »

You will not get a list of names.

You know who I work for Ronje and FOI ( freedom of information ) path is the only way you can ask this question. Not saying it will be approved due to privacy of the person that holds the delegation.
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dannett
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by dannett »

I'm not sure a list of individual names is too necessary, but it would be good to know whether the list includes the rangers or any TOs.
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by Daz12 »

Jesus, sounds like it's SAS or some sort of elite unit that can't be named....Either that or there's no one else or they don't actually know.
Well I suppose if you get questioned by a "Fisheries Officer" other than the NT Police you'd be quite within your rights to ask to see his current training records and statement of "approval" by the minister.
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by STANDY »

Quite within your rights to ask for ID.
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by Swoffa »

Simple questions should have simple answers...

Are NT Police authorized fisheries officers........Yes
Are Parks and Wildlife officers authorized fisheries officers....???
Are Rangers authorized fisheries officers......???
Are Indigenous Rangers authorized fisheries officers......???
Are traditional owners authorized fisheries officers......???

Asking for identification is one thing but that still does not give that person the right to board your vessel or issue arrest warrants or infringement notices.

Keep going Ron. Hope you have some luck in shedding some light on this ambiguous subject.
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by cuddlescooper »

In my eyes all of the above have the right to record and report but only fisheries branch of the NT police ( not DPI Fisheries) or another police member has the right to seize equipement, or restrain a person. If asked my name by any one else I am quite happy to say that I am Micky mouse and you are Donald duck so be on your way especially when it comes to rivers and boats. On land it is a different story as they can take registration of vehicles ect but with out boat licencing and rego numbers ect good luck to them proving much!!
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by chanos »

Excellent thread, I will print a copy off and keep in my boat so if "quizzed" by a supposed Authorised person I have the ammunition to ask for a copy of his/her delegation from the Minister. Happy days. Imagine this in a court room!!

Wondering how they would stop my boat anyway, hmmm.
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ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

Not wanting to get off track here, but ANY fisheries officer can ask questions, board vessels, search, seize etc..etc.. Penalties exist for people who fail to comply including failure to produce evidence of identity to the fisheries officer if asked to do so (or refuse to prove that they really are Donald Duck).

The fisheries officer must have ID showing proof of appointment as a fisheries officer and must produce it if asked EXCEPT a police officer in uniform who is automatically a fisheries officer under the Fisheries Act. If not in uniform then he/she must show proof of membership of police service. Interestingly, fisheries officers only have to produce I/d if you ask to see the evidence that they are who they claim to be (according to the Fisheries Act).

ALL fisheries officers are appointed except police officers who are so automatically. The Director of Fisheries is the only other person automatically appointed as a fisheries officer.

So my question to NT Fisheries Dept is a fair and essential one. Who else in the NT is appointed as a fisheries officer?

There will not be a list of names for reasons already given by others.

However, a list of classes of persons would suffice. eg TO Rangers, NT Wildlife officers...etc

There is a lot of confusion out there about who is/isn't a fisheries officer, what powers a fisheries officer has and what obligations people have under the Fisheries Act.

Management of the public's interface with Fisheries staff is poor at best and is one of the causes of the problems.
Regards
Ronje
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