Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Global warming and overfishing. And any good news we can dig up.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by AM »

I cant veiw data yet on phone as we are in sydney but. Amatures catching90000 goldys and commercial 5000. If you beleive that then drop around for a game of pea and thimble.5000 fish wouldnt satisfy the local dawin market and they are selling in sydney every day as well. 90000 so thats 1800 fishos bagging out every year 50 a day catching their 5 fish sorry but i dont accept this who are they? this is rubbish and is figment of multipling statists.
Goldys..... I might have got twenty this year for a 20k total fishimg investment ex cost of boat.


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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by AM »

Fables wrote:All the pro catch data is taken straight from the log books that all professional fishers have to complete and submit to fisheries (and it suggests this in the document). Log books are audited and fisheries observers are randomly placed on boats while they are fishing to verify that the actual catches match the records (and to see if there are any major discrepancies from previous logs). If there is any 'fudging' of numbers by the pro's it is more likely to be to hide bycatch than legitimate food fish. I don't think there is any reason to doubt the figures that they are reporting for the pro fishers catch.

Whilst I agree that the recreational fishing numbers are surprising, and I agree that it would be interesting to see the methodology - I still doubt that Fisheries produced these numbers without thorough consideration. Fisheries do conduct fairly frequent surveys at boat ramps (I have been surveyed...), and there are accurate methods of estimating total catch through surveys (just like accurate measures are made through TV ratings surveys and galaxy polls for political ratings etc...)

It would be interesting if we ran a poll up here on how many Goldies each FFF member catches per year.

Fables.

A very apt user name me thinks.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by ken_dog »

dirtyruiz wrote:If you blokes seriously can't get your head around goldie numbers in the harbour dropping then we have no hope. Half day charters hammer them 365. Rec fishos also hammer the harbour every weekend, they are a slow growing species and its been happening for 100 years in the harbour. If you need it "proven" to you through stats and research you approve of then it's likely you'll never be convinced. If you think about how hard the harbour gets fished you shouldn't need scientists to tell you
The accuracy and thoroughness of the "stats and research" are essential to rectifying the issue efficently.
How can you fix a problem when your only assuming the cause?
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by DOUG »

dirtyruiz wrote:If you blokes seriously can't get your head around goldie numbers in the harbour dropping then we have no hope. Half day charters hammer them 365. Rec fishos also hammer the harbour every weekend, they are a slow growing species and its been happening for 100 years in the harbour. If you need it "proven" to you through stats and research you approve of then it's likely you'll never be convinced. If you think about how hard the harbour gets fished you shouldn't need scientists to tell you
That's right it gets hammered no doubt
Fish don't breed or spawn or what ever you wanna call it in out harbour but our closest spawning/breeding ground Charles point is being raped which would be our fish stocks for Darwin harbour !! Then maybe lorna shoals would be next or even bynoe harbour
It's more the amount of fish being taken out of spawning areas at peak times that is causing the decline in numbers rather than an over fished harbour the fish just aren't getting a chance to breed and move into the harbour IMO !!
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by Kp NT »

Jut got this from the page and i have to agree that it is quite concerning

"The most concerning point is that with all of the new technology and knowledge available to us, we should be able to find the fish more easily and increase our catch rates if stocks are in good health. However, the fact that catch rates have declined significantly for fish species that aggregate at known sites even with technology and knowledge improvements, means that the true level of decline may be even greater and is being masked by our improving ability to still find fish within areas that are over-fished."

Just think about this, how many people live in darwin and then how many boats there are, if all those people went out fishing lets say 5 times a year and they all bagged out each time they went fishing just imagine how many fish get taken out, and lets not forget these fish are slow growing which means they are slow to mature which means that it takes a long time to regenerate fish stocks. And then on top of that you have the tour operators going out everyday loading up with fish and then the pros also go out and catch so many thousand of fish each year.
it all paints a pretty clear picture of declining fish stocks and if our ways dont get changed there is a distinct chance that the reef fish that WE ALL love will eventually become extinct from overfishing. :evil:
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"If you want to maintain a sustainable supply of fish you have to farm the fish, rather than mine them. So putting your money into fishing fleets that are going to exacerbate the problem by over-fishing is not the way to preserve the underlying asset."
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by ghound »

The charter operators are counted against the amateur catch..........
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by Toxic »

Ah good old statistics and graphs, I'm not saying that goldies aren't being overfished and I know that the fisheries guys do these studies in everyones best interests.
But, unless you have the data for every fish captured by every fisherman everyday of the year at every specific location throughout the Territory, then its really just
guesswork isn't it.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by AdzaNT »

You only need to listen to the old timers stories of what fishing used be like around Australia, head to more secluded, less fished places (like a beach east of Maningrida) and toss a gold bomber for 5 minutes, or look at the small fish you catch closer to the bigger cities like Brisbane to realise that fish stocks are not like the magic pudding (they don't just keep coming back each day). We are so lucky to have Darwin harbour in the shape it currently is. Where else can you go and catch a barra within sight of the boat ramp and a comfortable city? BUT, then look at boat ownership, # of tackelshops and the love of fishing around Darwin and you soon realise that a 30 year old golden snapper has done bl..dy well to avoid getting tempetd by a hook and bait over it's life, especially if it only has to be caught once to die through poor release survival.

As a FFF community, I reckon we need to support the fisheries research, start compiling our own data (as per Fables suggestion), and be far more pro active in protecting the valuable stocks we currently have, even if it means we protect some spots, rather than always feel victimised. It always amazes me how the ammature fishers get there Y-fronts in a knot when remote spots are earmarked as fish reserves used by just a handful of lucky folk. How many of us really get to fish away from Darwin and the local rivers and billabongs unless we use a heap of savings and holidays. What we should be doing is making sure Darwin Harbour is in the best condition possible to make sure we and our kids can still catch fish in the years to come with increaseing pressure from population and big development. That's just my 2c worth as a mad east arm barra fisho and scientist for a crust.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by moz »

Great to see the data in the report. We are pretty lucky in Aust that we have the research capacity to generate data for use in Fisheries management. Most areas of the world just flog their resources until the operators can't make any profit so back off effort (economic sustainable level).

The number of fish in a stock are generally well below what's termed the maximum sustainable yeild which is the aim of Fisheries management. This is the point where you can take as many fish as possible without a continual decline in future recruitment and yeild. Basically it means if you back off overall effort the yeild per unit of effort can increase. As an aside, I love my fishing and studied Fisheries Science but I don't work in the field or have any vested interest in this debate other than my personal concern in the longterm health of reef fish stocks.

Recreational fishing can have the same effect of overfishing to a sort of "economic sustainable yeild" level but for different reason to commercial operators. The limit will be how much we are willing to pay for petrol and bigger boats, advanced sounders and GPS to chase a diminishing yeild. At some point our effort will back off but by then numbers will be very low.

The data says that 80% or so of the effort is from the rec sector, we are at a level of recruitment overfishing and effort needs to be reduced by at least 30% and possibley more than 50%. It is in everyone's interest not to ignore those facts. In basic language, we can choose to ignore the data and keep doing what we do. In the short term catches can be reasonably maintained doing what we are doing but in the longer term it will be stuffed.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by olfart »

Well said mate, just to back up Dougs comment..Nearly every trip we drop at Charles on th way back..6 trips..not one goldie worth taking, and very few juveniles.
Where a quick run out in a 12footer/20hp to the same spots would see a feed on the table..It's now an o/nighter way out wide and quite often for maybe one or two good sized keepers.
Unfortunately there are some who think size limits refer to plane seats and bag limits to their carry on luggage. :bbad:
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by AM »

Double post small phone big finger.
Last edited by AM on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by AM »

Lets make it easy then dont close any areas for snapper or jew just do a no take or possessiom for 5 years. No charter goldy catch and keep for punters and no commercial catch (they wont care as from their data they ony get a few hundred a year each). That wouldnt be a problem as i dont catch em now. At first some will still die but people will stop fishing for them soon enough.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by AM »

ghound wrote:The charter operators are counted against the amateur catch..........
You have been pretty quiet on this one ghound. Why would fto catch be counted as amature didnt it sound bad enough for amatures if they were seperate.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by itsinmeblood »

A lot of nimby's here, people agreeing that stocks are down and then chucking in a big "but" so they can keep on doing what they're already doing insisting the numbers are a personal attack on their way of life. If you fish for goldies etc and neck em you're contributing to the decline in some degree, and if the numbers need protecting then you're going to have to get your head around a change in everybodies fishing habits to do so.
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Re: Reef fish stocks - some graphs

Post by seano »

itsinmeblood wrote:A lot of nimby's here, people agreeing that stocks are down and then chucking in a big "but" so they can keep on doing what they're already doing insisting the numbers are a personal attack on their way of life. If you fish for goldies etc and neck em you're contributing to the decline in some degree, and if the numbers need protecting then you're going to have to get your head around a change in everybodies fishing habits to do so.
Well said Jim. :mrgreen:
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