North Australian FISH FINDER TM forums

I really can't agree with the death penalty.

I have thought it out many times, it troubles me deep down inside and I just can't agree with ending anyone's life. Certainly once upon a time I didn’t have an opinion and probably lent to the side that if you do the crime you do the time, regardless of what the ‘the time’ was. It wasn’t until the execution of Van Nguyen that my eyes and mind opened to the whole process. That was perhaps the first time I was old enough to really understand all the implications of the death penalty, a case of it hitting close to home being the catalyst to my thoughts. I remember very clearly watching the whole process unfold, until the point that he was executed and for whatever reason it had an effect on me. It wasn’t until I really examined the concept in my mind, stripped away all the ignorance and macho bravado that I saw it for what it was - Killing another person.

I can see that in certain circumstances killing people can and does happen, in my mind it doesn't make it right nor does it always make it wrong but for it to happen, sanctioned by the state, in the cold light of day is something I don't think I could ever agree with.

Like many people I have had the unfortunate experience of being with loved ones at the end of their life, in some cases that end of life has come around tragically and prematurely. The pain, suffering and mourning is not something I would ever contemplate forcing upon others. The feeling of being with someone who knows they will die soon, long before their time is something so very surreal for me and a feeling that has never left me and still floors me when I think about it.
I hold life very precious and I don't believe anyone has the right to end another person’s life for any reason... It does happen and certainly at times I feel there is a degree of justice to it, I still don’t think it makes it right or indeed wrong, merely a tragedy for all involved.

I most certainly don’t agree with the death penalty for these two guys, they were more or less mules, they weren’t going make millions of dollars, they were taking drugs away from Bali and ultimately made a frigging stupid decision. They weren’t drug lords or kingpins, just naive and stupid fools. Not for one second do I believe they don’t deserve punishment but killing them isn’t a fit punishment, it never will be.

I also struggle with the misconception that drugs destroy every user’s life, it simply isn’t true. They have the potential to but that doesn’t always equate the destruction people harp on about. I’m happy to raise my hand and admit to using all manner of drugs at different times in my life, some soft and some hard. Suffice to say I haven’t touched anything for over 10 years but my life wasn’t destroyed, at worst it was a little disrupted in parts for a while. I took responsibility for that and made the changes I needed to make.
The overwhelming majority of people I know who have and still do use drugs are functioning, successful and good people. The people who have fallen in my experience are the exception, not the rule. It’s surprising how many people addicted to heroin live ‘normal’ productive lives without giving a hint that they are addicted, they aren’t the stories shown in the media because they aren’t interesting and often the people are hiding it and ashamed of their addiction. It really seems to me that often the lifestyle of a junkie from a social aspect and in some ways a health aspect is more destructive than the drug itself.
I also don’t like or agree with the notion that drug dealers are forcing their stock on people. Speaking from my personal experience no one ever forced any smoke in my lungs or held me down and threw pills down my throat or powder up my nose. I did it because, rightly or wrongly I wanted to, I searched the drugs out and for the most part had a great time and took the good with the bad. I’ve never had a dealer force anything on me, sure plenty of offers but never force. When I called it a day with that stuff I still got offers but a simple no was never met with any hostility, in fact I have always copped more cr.p from turning down a beer than anything else harder. Drug users aren’t innocent victims and that approach and mentality is itself destructive. I don’t doubt that circumstances make people vulnerable to drug abuse and I know from personal experience that moving on from drug use is a bl..dy hard thing to do but playing the victim and using it as an excuse to shrug off personal responsibility in no way helps people take control of their life. The truth as I see it is the majority of people who use drugs and fuel the market aren’t destitute junkies resorting to crime to feed their habits, they are everyday people who have a bit of fun at times. The same way most people who get on the p..s aren’t alcoholics. So if you buy the odd bag of weed, a couple of pills and splash out for a gram of coke every so often then you are just as guilty of keeping the drug market alive. Of course it is always the irony of drugs that I find interesting, whilst they are seen as destructive to society they are so often pivotal in growth and creation. Would Miami exist in any capacity that it now does without Cocaine? Would rock music be what it is without weed and lsd? Would dance music even exist without Ecstacy? I’m yet to see what Ice will give to society though but you get my drift. Important to note I’m not pro drugs… Just realistic.

In my opinion the death penalty is more punishment to the family, friends and loved ones, than the criminal. I believe that whilst jails need to be a place of punishment, they also need to be a place of productive rehabilitation. Criminals should do and need to right their wrongs if we have any chance of decreasing re-offending. Killing someone is entirely unproductive and many would argue a soft way out of punishment, the only thing you can be sure of is that if someone is executed they have no ability to right their wrongs. There is always the old chestnut that the death penalty is a deterrent to others from committing crimes – What a narrow-minded load of bullshit, the fact is few drug runners get caught and given countries across the globe with the death penalty are still catching drug runners goes to show that it is an ineffective deterrent. The only truth to the death penalty argument is that it saves money by killing the prisoner, I value life over money.

What am I going to do about these guys being killed by Indonesia? Well in truth not much.
I will not be boycotting the country as a result of their killings, I see that as norrow-minded, well intentioned but poorly executed protest. I won’t be visiting Bali or Indonesia simply because I have no desire to be there, it holds little interest or significance to me, as does much of South East Asia.
I would rather spend a week out fishing on my own than being a rich man on a cheap holiday.
I will continue to support the people of Indonesia with donations of money and so on to help build a brighter future for them as I would with many other struggling nations. It is the government I have a problem with and the last thing I would want to be judged by is the behaviour of my Australian government. I believe there are some 100 odd countries that have the death penalty in one form or another and many of these countries are of interest to me, it would be hypocritical of me to blacklist one country simply because they have killed Australians and still visit other countries.
What I will do is be proud that the country I live in doesn’t have the death penalty, proud that my country has evolved and let go of a barbaric practice, a practice that in some countries is used to kill people for such ridiculous reasons as being gay, adultery and religious belief/disbelief.
I will be pleased if the Australian government makes a diplomatic stand against the Indonesian government, certainly not the withdrawal of aid and support but makes it clear that the majority of Australians do not support the death penalty and do not approve of their behaviour.

For those in support of the death penalty, be very careful what you wish for… What seems like a great concept in one’s mind is often anything but in reality.

And with that, I'm off my soap box... They will get killed, dealers will continue to deal, smugglers will continue smuggle, users will continue to use and in some cases fall between the cracks. My life won't change, neither will most of the people here.

Well said luke79

They should put prisoners to use, the low security mob should be out cleaning up rubbish. Didn't they use to do this? Maybe they still do?

Put the Bali 9 in a chain gang and make them clean up the road verges 5km each side of Alice Springs, every last piece of glass! No doubt Indonesia also has plenty of such "work opportunities". Ten years of that would cure their ills, I reckon.

Such work would be a whole lot more useful than killing people, or just locking them up in a cell.

I might agree Jeff if I thought the death penalty was a deterrent and could save lives, but have executions made any difference? Aside from a chance to have a round of applause?

Death penalties probably makes drug runners more likely to shoot to escape, if their lives are at stake.

Interesting to see the divergent opinions, should hire charter boat and get the ABC on board for a day of opinions, rum and cokes all round to make it lively

Pfft, theres what 6 or 7 billion on Earth, human life just isn't that important. I reckon all drug dealers, sex offenders, murderers and attempted murderers should all cop a bullet, then on a case by case basis for other serious crimes like negligence causing death or where intent to cause serious physical or mental harm has been established. The only issue for me is proving guilt beyond all doubt, reasonable doubt just doesnt cut the mustard for the death penalty.

And add a three strikes and you're out policy for assaults, theft exceeding $1000 and a whole range of other crimes, hell even DUI. Too many people around with no regard for other people's safety and the things they have worked hard to get.

This type of discussion is just what the fff is about. Just like a bunch of mates sitting around at a pub having a drink and each giving their thoughts.

luke79 wrote:I really can't agree with the death penalty.

I have thought it out many times, it troubles me deep down inside and I just can't agree with ending anyone's life. Certainly once upon a time I didn’t have an opinion and probably lent to the side that if you do the crime you do the time, regardless of what the ‘the time’ was. It wasn’t until the execution of Van Nguyen that my eyes and mind opened to the whole process. That was perhaps the first time I was old enough to really understand all the implications of the death penalty, a case of it hitting close to home being the catalyst to my thoughts. I remember very clearly watching the whole process unfold, until the point that he was executed and for whatever reason it had an effect on me. It wasn’t until I really examined the concept in my mind, stripped away all the ignorance and macho bravado that I saw it for what it was - Killing another person.

I can see that in certain circumstances killing people can and does happen, in my mind it doesn't make it right nor does it always make it wrong but for it to happen, sanctioned by the state, in the cold light of day is something I don't think I could ever agree with.

Like many people I have had the unfortunate experience of being with loved ones at the end of their life, in some cases that end of life has come around tragically and prematurely. The pain, suffering and mourning is not something I would ever contemplate forcing upon others. The feeling of being with someone who knows they will die soon, long before their time is something so very surreal for me and a feeling that has never left me and still floors me when I think about it.
I hold life very precious and I don't believe anyone has the right to end another person’s life for any reason... It does happen and certainly at times I feel there is a degree of justice to it, I still don’t think it makes it right or indeed wrong, merely a tragedy for all involved.

I most certainly don’t agree with the death penalty for these two guys, they were more or less mules, they weren’t going make millions of dollars, they were taking drugs away from Bali and ultimately made a frigging stupid decision. They weren’t drug lords or kingpins, just naive and stupid fools. Not for one second do I believe they don’t deserve punishment but killing them isn’t a fit punishment, it never will be.

I also struggle with the misconception that drugs destroy every user’s life, it simply isn’t true. They have the potential to but that doesn’t always equate the destruction people harp on about. I’m happy to raise my hand and admit to using all manner of drugs at different times in my life, some soft and some hard. Suffice to say I haven’t touched anything for over 10 years but my life wasn’t destroyed, at worst it was a little disrupted in parts for a while. I took responsibility for that and made the changes I needed to make.
The overwhelming majority of people I know who have and still do use drugs are functioning, successful and good people. The people who have fallen in my experience are the exception, not the rule. It’s surprising how many people addicted to heroin live ‘normal’ productive lives without giving a hint that they are addicted, they aren’t the stories shown in the media because they aren’t interesting and often the people are hiding it and ashamed of their addiction. It really seems to me that often the lifestyle of a junkie from a social aspect and in some ways a health aspect is more destructive than the drug itself.
I also don’t like or agree with the notion that drug dealers are forcing their stock on people. Speaking from my personal experience no one ever forced any smoke in my lungs or held me down and threw pills down my throat or powder up my nose. I did it because, rightly or wrongly I wanted to, I searched the drugs out and for the most part had a great time and took the good with the bad. I’ve never had a dealer force anything on me, sure plenty of offers but never force. When I called it a day with that stuff I still got offers but a simple no was never met with any hostility, in fact I have always copped more cr.p from turning down a beer than anything else harder. Drug users aren’t innocent victims and that approach and mentality is itself destructive. I don’t doubt that circumstances make people vulnerable to drug abuse and I know from personal experience that moving on from drug use is a bl..dy hard thing to do but playing the victim and using it as an excuse to shrug off personal responsibility in no way helps people take control of their life. The truth as I see it is the majority of people who use drugs and fuel the market aren’t destitute junkies resorting to crime to feed their habits, they are everyday people who have a bit of fun at times. The same way most people who get on the p..s aren’t alcoholics. So if you buy the odd bag of weed, a couple of pills and splash out for a gram of coke every so often then you are just as guilty of keeping the drug market alive. Of course it is always the irony of drugs that I find interesting, whilst they are seen as destructive to society they are so often pivotal in growth and creation. Would Miami exist in any capacity that it now does without Cocaine? Would rock music be what it is without weed and lsd? Would dance music even exist without Ecstacy? I’m yet to see what Ice will give to society though but you get my drift. Important to note I’m not pro drugs… Just realistic.

In my opinion the death penalty is more punishment to the family, friends and loved ones, than the criminal. I believe that whilst jails need to be a place of punishment, they also need to be a place of productive rehabilitation. Criminals should do and need to right their wrongs if we have any chance of decreasing re-offending. Killing someone is entirely unproductive and many would argue a soft way out of punishment, the only thing you can be sure of is that if someone is executed they have no ability to right their wrongs. There is always the old chestnut that the death penalty is a deterrent to others from committing crimes – What a narrow-minded load of bullshit, the fact is few drug runners get caught and given countries across the globe with the death penalty are still catching drug runners goes to show that it is an ineffective deterrent. The only truth to the death penalty argument is that it saves money by killing the prisoner, I value life over money.

What am I going to do about these guys being killed by Indonesia? Well in truth not much.
I will not be boycotting the country as a result of their killings, I see that as norrow-minded, well intentioned but poorly executed protest. I won’t be visiting Bali or Indonesia simply because I have no desire to be there, it holds little interest or significance to me, as does much of South East Asia.
I would rather spend a week out fishing on my own than being a rich man on a cheap holiday.
I will continue to support the people of Indonesia with donations of money and so on to help build a brighter future for them as I would with many other struggling nations. It is the government I have a problem with and the last thing I would want to be judged by is the behaviour of my Australian government. I believe there are some 100 odd countries that have the death penalty in one form or another and many of these countries are of interest to me, it would be hypocritical of me to blacklist one country simply because they have killed Australians and still visit other countries.
What I will do is be proud that the country I live in doesn’t have the death penalty, proud that my country has evolved and let go of a barbaric practice, a practice that in some countries is used to kill people for such ridiculous reasons as being gay, adultery and religious belief/disbelief.
I will be pleased if the Australian government makes a diplomatic stand against the Indonesian government, certainly not the withdrawal of aid and support but makes it clear that the majority of Australians do not support the death penalty and do not approve of their behaviour.

For those in support of the death penalty, be very careful what you wish for… What seems like a great concept in one’s mind is often anything but in reality.

And with that, I'm off my soap box... They will get killed, dealers will continue to deal, smugglers will continue smuggle, users will continue to use and in some cases fall between the cracks. My life won't change, neither will most of the people here.

What a load of cr.p...

Why waste the money on bullets?
Stabbing doesn't cost a damn thing.

I'll support on a world wide level, those committing drug related crime to face a stabbing squad

mnemonix wrote:Why waste the money on bullets?
Stabbing doesn't cost a damn thing.

I'll support on a world wide level, those committing drug related crime to face a stabbing squad

You could kill off a political or business opponent in Indonesia by planting drugs on them.

Glad I am not living under that system.

Matt Flynn wrote:You could kill off a political or business opponent in Indonesia by planting drugs on them.

Or Malaysia by whacking one up their ar$e ......

as far as Im concerned, what Indonesia does with crimminals,local or foregn, in their own country is none of my buisness.
Same with what they do with THEIR cattle, once we sell em, theyre not ours.
Do I think Australia is to soft on serious crime? Yes.
Do I think the death penalty will fix it? No.
There must be alternatives though, maybe use the very worst for medical experiments, to save crueilty to animals.
Od send them to fight ISIS with a nail in a stick.
Some sentences in this country are a Joke.

So we’re going stab to death all our criminals who are thieves, got done for pissy driving, assaulted people, caused gbh, sold drugs (Karmichael Hunt better watch out) etc etc. But only after we scare the cr@p out of them for a week or so by shooting over their heads. Then we turn them all into dynamic lifter for the garden and sell it to the three people left in the world who have done none of the above.

Here I was thinking this was a serious thread but now that I look at the comedy behind it I love it even more. Great effort fellas you had me sucked me in for a good while.

There was something there about sodomising Malaysians as well not sure if it was about how to execute them or what you’d execute them for. Whatever, make it both to make sure!

All I know is anyone on here of the same opinion as Hemi should give themselves an uppercut.

good one!!!




Thats a lot of uppercuts.... frig ive spoken to a heap of people that dont give two s...ts about these maggots!!

Hemi wrote:[emoji144] good one!!!




Thats a lot of uppercuts.... frig ive spoken to a heap of people that dont give two s...ts about these maggots!!

They shud have just injected them with the whole 8kg. Job done