North Australian FISH FINDER TM forums

you done good am

decreasing limits will not help the fish at all especially in the deepe waters where baratrauma effects them so your going to have a long trail of dead fish behind peoples boat while trying to sit there and catch there 3 quality fish of each species that would be a ridiculous idea in my ipinion
maybe of for a spearfisherman who shoots what he wants eh ?? but everyone else who is in the lucky dip of dropping a bait down and hoping to get a decent fish well we are always going to have alot of throw backs and even more so if the limits are decreased
i personally havent fihed deep enough waters to see baratrauma at all what depth would you see it in snapper???? is it the speed they are pulled from the depths that causes it????

20x fish over all personal limit on amature vessils.

2x Jew with seasonal closure for every one in set sporning agrigation points.

1x Jew per person on charter vessils was always enough to keep the majority of people happy

5x goldies and size limit of 35cm approximatly for amatures ( only if evidence can be shown that more juvinile fish are caught in shallow water than in the deeper stuff. I guess this would be the case as the harbor arms are littered with juviniles and are an easy target so a large % of people would catch juviniles there. Going to be hard to watch some floaters out wide but I guess it will work out in the llong run with estuary juviniles being able to make it to sporning age.)
I would say lower number but would upset a multitude of people who do the longer trips to places that the goldies are the main species of target and in many cases the only species that you will catch. ie cape fourcroy and cape hotham to name a couple. You dont really consistantly catch much there other than Jew and goldies in regards to reef species.

Would like to see a 2 or 3 Goldies limit for charters vessils as they have a greater range and can target more species on extended trips. This bag wouldnt really affect the bigger boats day charters as they would struggle to catch this number of snapper in a day on most occasions at the moment.

2x red emperer with a size limit of 40cm

5x mangrove jacks plus 35cm size limit.

3x barra. 55cm to 85cm

1x sail/marlin generally I think most release but for the hell of it.

Tuna are a waist of paper to write legeslation as they come and go and arent a eating target fish for most people and wouldnt come under threat from any body.

Mud crabs size could be lifted to 14cm overall as a 13cm crab is pretty god damn small IMHO. Bag could be dropped to 5 per person and 20 per boat.

The rest of the species such as tricky snapper (Grass Sweetlip) and Nanagai to name a couple suffer baratroama to badly to limit them to 2 or 3 per person and to put size limits on. I think they should just be left as a part of the overall limit that needs to be lowered.

Tuskfish are also really bad with baratrauma and arent a targetable species as such. They are more a insidental catch. I also dont think a size limit will help and I dont think a bag will help either. Interesting species and not sure what to do.

For coral trout I would like to see the info on how they suffer less baratroama then other species. Most trout that I have ever caught have an extended gut out there mouth. Surly they dont survive after this. The Queensland research that I read also suggested that they suffer from it fairly bad. Another species that I would like to protect but doubt that it is going to be that easy as neither size or bag helps on on insidental catch species that suffer baratrauma.

Not sure on the threadfin front. Can we get rid of the netters! They wipe out whole schools of them in one string. I guess i would support a bag limit of 3 per person but a size I dont think is necessary as they grow fairly quickly I believe from the little info that I have found or know on them. Maximum size not necessary any way if that is the case. Minimum possible.

Cod should be reduced to 1m maximum for sure. Not sure how well they survive any way but better in the water than in the esky dead. Cant really see anyone eating a fish that big. Most people kill them for bragging rights and then waiste them.

Circle hooks for live baiting would be a good idea and if not Territory wide at least at the Daly where the grey nomads soak cherabine and kill hundreds of juvinile fish with J hooks.

I think I have nearly upset everyone so that will do!

DOUG wrote: i personally havent fihed deep enough waters to see baratrauma at all what depth would you see it in snapper???? is it the speed they are pulled from the depths that causes it????

The recommended maximum depth that a goldie can be released according to the fisheries NT is 14m if the fish is handled correctly and if the hooks havent done to much damage ie gut hooked and bleeding.

The depth is the main factor in the cause as the air expands in the stomach cavity when comming up to the surface. I doubt you would be able to wind slow enough to get a fish to the surface without causing it baratraumas.

cuddlescooper wrote:

DOUG wrote: i personally havent fihed deep enough waters to see baratrauma at all what depth would you see it in snapper???? is it the speed they are pulled from the depths that causes it????

The recommended maximum depth that a goldie can be released according to the fisheries NT is 14m if the fish is handled correctly and if the hooks havent done to much damage ie gut hooked and bleeding.

The depth is the main factor in the cause as the air expands in the stomach cavity when comming up to the surface. I doubt you would be able to wind slow enough to get a fish to the surface without causing it baratraumas.

cheers mate were i been getting goldies is only 11 to 13m probabaly why i didnt see it but even out at sailcity in 27 m of water didnt see it with
the small red and coral trout and heaps of little trickies none of them had it do the juveniles suffer less maybe or what the go there?? they were all released no worries

Guys

I'll try and get someone from Fisheries to provide you with more detail on the barotrauma issue but, as I understand it, even though there may not be visible signs of trouble there could be irreversible damage to internal organs that will eventually kill the fish. Best advice from Fisheries is that jewies pulled from 10 metres or more are virtually all stuffed and we think the depth for golden snapper is probably about 15 metres.

Regards

Chris Makepeace wrote: Best advice from Fisheries is that jewies pulled from 10 metres or more are virtually all stuffed and we think the depth for golden snapper is probably about 15 metres.

Regards

And that is the issue "you think" you dont need to be a rocket scientist to see the greatest threat to our fisheries are the pro's, you only need to look at the harbour after they stopped netting, shoal bay, the daly kakadu etc etc to see the biggest impact comes from commercial operations. some of the proposals like size limits on snapper and jacks are unjust, I have travel right across the topend and the kimberleys and the min size of 30cm proposed for jacks would be an rare and considered a reasonable fish of that species with average specimens even in remote regions smaller than that. there needs to be much more work done on this chris as it certainly isnt a reasonable, fair proposal as it stands for ALL fishermen and you do need to cater for than those with big shiny boats. some of these proposal would ostricise small boat fishermen who can only target inshore waters with small boats. you need to put much more thought into it chris.

BEAR

Guys

I have heard back from the guys from Fisheries. Here is what they say:

• The commercial catch of jewfish has remained relatively stable over the last few years although effort has increased slightly.
• The latest research on jewfish would include the rec survey results. Fisheries are also monitoring the size of jewfish caught through both the commercial and FTO sectors.
• Fisheries data indicates that only about 10% of golden snapper caught in deep water would be less than 30cm.
• Barotrauma usually impacts fish in water greater than 10m deep (you cannot wind slow enough to remove the impact of barotraumas). Little is known on the impacts of barotrauma with fish size .i.e.are small fish more resilient? We don’t know, however most usually suffer some impact. Even if the fish can swim back down to depth the internal injuries may well be fatal.
Many FFF respondents are saying that poss limits are no good because once you have caught your snapper limit you will continue to catch them as you try to reach your limit of trickies etc. This is true however the idea is that fishers stop fishing on the bottom and target other species like pelagics or at least move to shallow water etc.

Fisheries put out a flyer about barotrama a while ago. It says:

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW!
• Research indicates that many of our tropical reef fish species (including those pictured) are unlikely to survive being released when caught in water deeper than 10 metres due to the effects of barotrauma.
• Fish caught in water deeper than 10 metres can suffer the fatal effects of barotrauma as gases expand in their bodies causing internal injuries, similar to a diver getting the bends.
• Even fish that are returned to the water in apparently good condition may have suffered fatal internal injuries.
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP?
• If you are bottom fishing in water deeper than 10 metres and have caught enough fish for your immediate needs, consider moving to shallower waters or targeting different species that are less susceptible to barotrauma (eg. mackerel, tuna, barramundi).
• If you are bottom fishing in deep water and continually catching juvenile and unwanted species, consider moving instead of staying in the hope of catching keepers.
• Learn correct release techniques as reef fish caught in shallow waters (<10 m) can survive if handled properly.
• Consider using large non-offset circle hooks to help prevent the capture of smaller fish and decrease the incidence of gut-hooking.

Regards

DOUG wrote:[.

cheers mate were i been getting goldies is only 11 to 13m probabaly why i didnt see it but even out at sailcity in 27 m of water didnt see it with
the small red and coral trout and heaps of little trickies none of them had it do the juveniles suffer less maybe or what the go there?? they were all released no worries[/quote]

The small red emperer wouldnt be affected at all. Did the trickies have there arse hanging out? That is baratrauma!

Did the trout feel bloated in the belly or have little bubbles under the scales or expanded eyes? That is barratrauma!

BEAR wrote:

Chris Makepeace wrote: Best advice from Fisheries is that jewies pulled from 10 metres or more are virtually all stuffed and we think the depth for golden snapper is probably about 15 metres.

Regards

And that is the issue "you think" you dont need to be a rocket scientist to see the greatest threat to our fisheries are the pro's, you only need to look at the harbour after they stopped netting, shoal bay, the daly kakadu etc etc to see the biggest impact comes from commercial operations. some of the proposals like size limits on snapper and jacks are unjust, I have travel right across the topend and the kimberleys and the min size of 30cm proposed for jacks would be an rare and considered a reasonable fish of that species with average specimens even in remote regions smaller than that. there needs to be much more work done on this chris as it certainly isnt a reasonable, fair proposal as it stands for ALL fishermen and you do need to cater for than those with big shiny boats. some of these proposal would ostricise small boat fishermen who can only target inshore waters with small boats. you need to put much more thought into it chris.

Mate if you arent catching Jacks above thirty centimetres when you are remote there is something wrong. And imagine if you put a limit of thirty centimetres. After a couple of years the majority of the fish will be that size at least. Might take a while as they grow slow but it would be a certainty. Jacks also are not a commercial target so they arent affected by the pros.

BEAR

cooper nah none of that
i know what it looks like with the eyes and arse and bloated guts out the mouth but none of that at all
why i asked i thought it would be in really deep water not as shallow as they have said so good to know

there needs to be much more work done on this chris as it certainly isnt a reasonable, fair proposal as it stands for ALL fishermen and you do need to cater for more than those with big shiny boats

Never a more true statment Bear.

Sorry one thing I didnt get too this morning. We are on the right track here but I draw the line big time at being told what typeof fish hook to use. ITS NOT RUSSIA YET IS IT. I wont be told to use circle hooks so I can release easier, give me a break, even if these limits come in I am stilll going fishing not releasing.

Interesting that the pro catch of jewfish is apparently flat but the charter catch is showing a steady decline despite vastly increasing effort. Would like to see the average size data.

I assume the decline in charter jewie catch is because many charter boat logs are from Darwin Harbour trips, which is possibly the area copping the most pressure. It would be good to hear from AFANT or Fisheries with theories as to why the two sets of data do not match. The charter data suggests an emergency, but if the pro catch is flat then maybe not, except possibly in the harbour.

tried to call you with the answer to that matt ,just for the record we don't have gps in our boats haven't had a sounder for two years.

I would assume it would have something to do with most charter guys just using whatever marks the vessel comes with where as the pro guys would know where to go looking not just rely on Marks.