Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Quiz FFF members on fishing and outdoors topics using the forum polling function

Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Yes
22
69%
No
10
31%
 
Total votes: 32

User avatar
Matt Flynn
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16186
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 9:30 am
Location: Somewhat Southerly
Contact:

Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by Matt Flynn »

The earthen barrages in the Shady Camp region, and the main barrage, have long been controversial because they impede fish migration. Some reckon Corroboree and Hardies are not like they used to be because of this.

After all, habitat is king, you can take out the nets but it won't fix the effect of degraded habitat.

Clearly there are many meteries to be had in the Sampan salt etc, but could the fishing be even better?

And is the barrage problem getting worse?

Or are there other reasons why Corroboree etc are "not as good as they used to be", eg more lily pads for the fish to hide since the buffalo were removed, cr.p wet seasons etc.

Or is Corroboree as good as ever on a good year?


Wal
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:27 pm

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by Wal »

I bought a boat. I'm pretty sure that's the main reason.
nomad
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 5770
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:29 pm
Location: PALMERSTON
Contact:

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by nomad »

I suppose we need to look at why they were built in the 1st place. My understanding was to stop salt water intrusion into the wet lands caused by buffalo.
I also heard that there were rock bars that used to stop the salt but were dynamited out. Don’t know how true this is.
I’ve heard that the graziers wanted to ‘reclaim some land’ but I cant see how this is possible. If was always a salt affected area, then it would be near impossible to turn a salt marsh into fresh water marsh.
Did the salt water ever make its way into corroboree? Does anyone here know the height difference between the barrage and corrob water levels? It would have to be several metres. Hard to imagine salt ever being up there
Now, if there was always salt intrusion, it should be returned to the original situation.

One thing it does prove is that you just can’t interfere with nature. Bringing in the buff was the start. Removing the rockbar was the next (if true) building the barrage was the final nail in the coffin.
NT Wombat
Seadog
Seadog
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:31 pm
Location: Howard Springs

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by NT Wombat »

Somewhere at home I have an old topo map of the shady camp area from 1976. It shows the shady fresh billabong as a billabong with no boatable outlet. Further towards the coast it has a billabong called "Dead Fish Billabong" where the sampan s bends are. there is then an area of floodplain and the saltwater starts about 500m coastward of that. That would suggest that even now the salt intrutes a good 7 or 8K's past where it was in the 70's. I recall fishing Corroboree when i first moved up here (early 2000's) and we would catch 70 - 80cm fish every trip just chucking big minnows around, had no idea what we were doing and the fishing was easy. Now we very rarely get a fish over 70cm during the day - still get some good ones trolling at night. There is a lot more fishing pressure there now as well. I think the barrages have done a good job preventing further salt intrusion but i think they need to make more of the water go over the barrage itself and do a better job building the smaller barrages so they dont fail as soon as the first rains hit.
NT Wombat
Seadog
Seadog
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:31 pm
Location: Howard Springs

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by NT Wombat »

Matt, what exactly is the "Barrages problem"? Are you taking barriers to fish migration or silting of Sampan creek or both? I think getting more of the water, especially during smaller flows, over the main barrage would help with the silting below the barrage. Given that all the smaller barrages seem to break during the wet i cant see how they would be that big a barrier to fish migrating. Just head to shady when the tide runs back over it and watch how many barra are caught migrating. During peak flooding there would be no impediment to fish migration whatsover would there?
baldrick
New Member
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by baldrick »

After fishing the freshwater side of the Mary River for approx. 30 years, and talking to an "old-timer" who has been fishing it since the early 60's; I believe, as he does, that the fishing in the upper Mary River system has deteriorated since the barrages have gone in. Originally the barrages were to stop the saltwater intrusion into the Mary River wetlands. However, with the first barrages, the height of them have increased to a point where they are more than the maximum height of any extreme high tides. One of the reasons is for artificial reclamation of land behind the barrages. This is achieved by the deposit of silt and depris behind the barrages. Over time, with the dry season compacting the washed down vegetation and soil, the land builds up and covers the swamps, waterways, billabongs to the point that is becomes solid ground in the dry. With this happening over many years, all the natural fish routes are filled in leaving only the one major one for fish to migrate up stream. The "new" ground then can be used by the pastoralist for cattle grazing, giving them arable land that they would otherwise not have.
My experience over the past 30 odd years has seen the fishing go from cricket score catches (and releases) to being lucky to catch 5 fish in a session! In 2005, before the repair and raising of the barrages, my wife, son and I caught over a 100 barra, between 60-85cms, over he Easter period. One session saw 40 fish landed in 3 hours, with more than treble that number lost! Throughout that year we continued to catch quality fish in Corroboree, Hardies and the Bridge Lagoon. The next year, we were lucky to catch 15 at the end of the wet season, and the whole year was poor. I keep reasonable records of my exploits from 1979 onwards, with photos. They show that the colour of the water in the freshwater reaches have gone from a light coffee colour to the tannin stained colour it is now. There always seemed to be a current flow thoughout the year, and you never used to smell the rotting vegetation that is evident most of the year round now.
A solution to this problem is to build one-way sluice gates on ALL the barrages so that fish can move down stream and the water flow increased, stop the build up of debris at the back of the barrages and on the highest tides (above 6.5m), fish can move over the sluice gates back up stream. Alternatively build suitable fish ladders for the fish migration. Back in the day of the Shady Camp Station, the barrage was just a coffee-rock, rock bar. Fishing there at that time was fantastic, not the shambles it is now.
Hopefully this forum will gain a following so that some action and genuine research, not cattle graziers version, can be done to see how much the environment has been destroyed by the barrages. Over to you fellow fishers, do we want to preserve and return the fishing to it's past glory, or let it die the way it is heading now?
User avatar
Fruity
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Marlow Lagoon

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by Fruity »

What about the pro fisherman that flogged all the breeders the last 20 plus years,
Can't expect population to quickly recover, especially now there is no closed season to protect the big breeders.
Cheers :cheers:
Fruity

Fishing is a condition of mind wherein you cannot possibly have a bad time.
Zane Grey.
User avatar
Matt Flynn
Site Administrator
Site Administrator
Posts: 16186
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 9:30 am
Location: Somewhat Southerly
Contact:

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by Matt Flynn »

I think the pros were always there. And barra poachers too, before recreational fishing really took off. Poachers used to net Corroboree.

I arrived in the NT when the BTEC campaign was very active removing buffalo and I didn't experience the "old" Corroboree with brown water and fewer weeds, but I have heard stories as above from older Territorians.

There may be other factors involved, but the barrages are prime suspect. I doubt there is the political will or the money to fix it, which is a shame, because not all fishos want to run the Shady Camp tidal gauntlet to catch horses ... an improved Corroboree/Hardies/Rock Hole would be a greater fishing asset for family fishos and tourists. No doubt Corrob etc will fish well again but it probably requires a giant wet season to fire it up.

I read somewhere that Broad Sound on the central Queensland coast had good barra stocks until the swamps were reclaimed or drained, there are probably many other examples.

Habitat is king, everything else is far less important.
User avatar
Scottie5.3
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:59 pm
Location: Acacia hills

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by Scottie5.3 »

Very interesting first post baldrick, would love to see those topo maps. Just wish I was around to see shady in its prime before people starting messing with nature.
Even returning it to how it was, I wonder if the fish stocks could ever recover to what they were back then. With the amount of people fishing pros and recreational it's sad to say we probably never will see it like that again. But in saying that I have managed one trip to shady in 2012 that yielded cricket score numbers of barra, must have been at least 150 over two days for myself and a mate biggest going 96 for the trip. Think a massive wet really is the key, hopefully it washes half the barrages out and they leave them as they are.
Scott's mobile mechanics- 0421 965 093

Life is hard, but it's harder if your stupid - John Wayne
NT Wombat
Seadog
Seadog
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:31 pm
Location: Howard Springs

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by NT Wombat »

Ill have a crack at digging out the old topo map over the weekend, if I find it I'll take a pic and post it up. Stunned me the first time I saw it.
NT Wombat
Seadog
Seadog
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:31 pm
Location: Howard Springs

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by NT Wombat »

From "Saltwater Intrusion and the Mary River Wetlands" R.J.Appelgate, Department of Lands Planning and Environment, Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... _11#page-1

"2.Saltwater Intrusion
2.1 Recent Changes
In the late 1940s, the morphology of these wetlands changed and small tidal channels advanced inland, invading the freshwater swamps and occupying the previously unconnected billabongs and channels of the floodplain. This saltwater intrusion into the freshwater environments caused massive die-back of swamp grasslands and Melaleuca swamps (Figure 2). Temporal analysis of aerial photographs has charted the change of two minor tidal channels less than 3 km long in 1940 to large tidal outlets extending over 30km inland in 1995. These two channels are now known as Tommycut creek and Sampan creek and form the major outlets to the sea for the Mary River."

I really dont think people grasp just how dramatically different this place is to how it was before white settlement. Sampan and Tommycut creeks were 3 kilometer long creeks and there was no main channel from the barrage to the coast. Nearly the whole creek system is new. We are literally whatching the creation of a new, saltwater system. I dont think we have the option of "putting it back how it used to be" I also dont think scrapping the barrages is a good idea. For better or worse they have stopped the saltwater pushing even further upstream. I dont think its beyond reason to think that saltwater could reach corroboree, it has reached 30+ K's inland over the past 60 years and the bottom of corroboree is not far from the top of shady fresh.
NBN
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:45 pm

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by NBN »

"Even returning it to how it was, I wonder if the fish stocks could ever recover to what they were back then. With the amount of people fishing pros and recreational it's sad to say we probably never will see it like that again."

Scott, I reckon access to habitat in 2011 was pretty high in that system. In fact I fished the area in March 2011; very average results - way too much water (well that's my story) but was great to see everything heaving. As you say 2012 provided some good results on the back of a big wet.

Back in the early - mid 80's when I reckon carp numbers in my then local waterways (around Tamworth) were at there peak I really thought it was game over for the Murray Cod. Water extraction for irrigation was rife ('regulated' and unregulated), fallen trees in the rivers were a nuisance and to be removed, to even whisper C&R got you measured up for a straight jacket or a punch in the mouth (sometimes both) and all kinds of nasties were still running off (or being pumped) into the rivers. If anyone actually managed to catch a cod it would feature in the first couple of pages of the local rag - all dried up swinging from a Hills Hoist. Pretty Grim.
But now.... I would classify the population as 'healthy'. There are plenty of really good fish in the system in all year classes. Sure there are more people fishing (so the stats naturally go up) and fishing technology has improved dramatically but there simply are more cod. What happened; well the controllables were controlled. Provide appropriate flows (not just for irrigation purposes), leave habitat (snags), proactively manage erosion and surface runoff and educate people that 'kill it and fillet' is not the only way. No rocket science here just plenty of tenacity.

You've just got to give Mother Nature a chance and she can work wonders. The sooner you give her the leg up the faster the results. From the anecdotal evidence on this forum there seems to be a tangible reduction in barra numbers in the billabongs. Time for action?

Barra are a prime candidate for resurrection given their fertility, growth rate and ability to live in both salt and fresh. I don't think we can ever expect the system and numbers to return to 'the good old days' but we can certainly do better. I've said it before on here; if nothing changes, nothing will change. A big wet will eventually turn up, barra numbers will boom for a short period (and potentially this period could become shorter and shorter), the Shady Barrages issue is forgotten until there are a series of drier years then the debate emerges again and on it goes.

Probably difficult to fire too many up presently with 'Metery Fest 2015' occurring at the mouth.

Thx Matt, good subject.
NBN
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:45 pm

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by NBN »

I really dont think people grasp just how dramatically different this place is to how it was before white settlement. Sampan and Tommycut creeks were 3 kilometer long creeks and there was no main channel from the barrage to the coast. Nearly the whole creek system is new. We are literally whatching the creation of a new, saltwater system. I dont think we have the option of "putting it back how it used to be" I also dont think scrapping the barrages is a good idea. For better or worse they have stopped the saltwater pushing even further upstream. I dont think its beyond reason to think that saltwater could reach corroboree, it has reached 30+ K's inland over the past 60 years and the bottom of corroboree is not far from the top of shady fresh.

NTW, I agree we can't simply remove the barrages and all is forgiven. Does the debate start and stop at; maintaining or removing the barrages? Are there other options?

What do Fisheries think? Clearly cost is the #1 issue but leaving that aside are there any legitimate options?
nomad
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 5770
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:29 pm
Location: PALMERSTON
Contact:

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by nomad »

I still have no idea of the levels of the rockbar before the barrages.
It would be good to see the actual contour levels say from the barrage to corroboree.

At the highest tides, how far up would the salt intrude into the fresh?
My money is on the land grab ie turning salt marshes into friable land for pasture.
User avatar
fish4me123
Seadog
Seadog
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:23 am
Location: darwin

Re: Is the Shady Camp barrages problem getting worse?

Post by fish4me123 »

The upstream section of the barrage was always salt before any barrages were built. This was the only salt water was up stream of the original barrage. In the seventies as You went downstream the river was 70 present narrower. Just before the real s bent there is a creek that flowed outwards into the dead forrest and to tommy cut creek.The trees were dead in the earlie 80s. That was the area that the salt water moved in to and it was caused by buffs. I was 14 and my best mate and me could not get into there in a 10 foot punt with paddeles and we tried. The idea was I suspect was that the salt water rockbar where we put in was always salt and I think someone without a engineering back ground decided to put some crude concrete on the rock bars. After 1986 sometime This was not effective so the fun began each year some one would add cement until the end of the 1st barrage eroded away. Then the about 15 years ago On the upstream side of the 1st barrage the water made it's own track making the secondbarrage and incorperated a large billabong as kids we called red lilly. It orrignally trickled water next to the sunk vietnamise boat. The second barrage work started. Each year the water erode it away at one end and created the third barrage.. About 4 years ago for the first time ever I travelled from the second barrage into palm billabong at the end of corrobary. this was possible by a fence line and a graded road that was at that time a meter deep in water. There was some floating weed separating both Systems about 100 mtres worth. I believe the rock bar above the 1st rock bar is were the girls sporned We caught big barr that had roe in them at the time we had no idea what it was. In th 1986 I saw illegal neters run a gill net at night at the first barrage It had 3 foot barra in it. It was so heavy 4 blokes had to lift it in to a bongo van bit by bit. They then trundled off to the meat works. I was edjamaceted at dwn high so ua now why I cant spell.
tight lines
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Fishing Polls”