NT Fisheries Dept

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grumpy
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by grumpy »

Even if someone has been appointed at some point in time by the minister this does not mean that they are still qualified when they eventually deal with us. The appointment can't go on indefinitely???

Cheers grumpy


A mans boat is a sign of his strengths and weaknesses???? (and wealth)
nomad
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by nomad »

cuddlescooper wrote:In my eyes all of the above have the right to record and report but only fisheries branch of the NT police ( not DPI Fisheries) or another police member has the right to seize equipement, or restrain a person. If asked my name by any one else I am quite happy to say that I am Micky mouse and you are Donald duck so be on your way especially when it comes to rivers and boats. On land it is a different story as they can take registration of vehicles ect but with out boat licencing and rego numbers ect good luck to them proving much!!


Everyone has the right to take records (photos etc) of you and the boat. But it would be a bit hard to id you or your boat without rego though :lol:


If approached by anyone stating that they are acting under fisheries act etc, you just need to ask them politely for their ‘authority’. (i wouldnt ask a copper for his brief though)
If they are authorised, they have to show it to you. If not, they have the same rights as you and I -- none

There days I assume it would be more like our driver licence and would be valid while they were employed

I reckon that they will have it all worked out by 1st July.
ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

An attempt by the Minister's office to sanitise the issue. Didn't work.

By my count that's seven (7) times I've asked the same question of the Fisheries Dept.

Copy of response by Minister's office.


Subject:
RE: Fwd: Refusal by NT Fisheries to answer a simple question.

Dear Mr Jenkins

Thank you for your email received this morning.  I am aware that staff from the Department of Primary Industry and Resources have provided a more detailed response that should satisfy your query regarding the appointment of Fisheries Officers.

Whilst the Department endeavours to respond to all correspondence (including through social media) as quickly as possible, unfortunately delays do occur at times like over the festive period when large numbers of staff are on leave.

Please do not hesitate to let me know if you need any further information.

Regards,  ............


My answer

Hello .............

Contrary to what you were told, nobody has provided me with any detailed information relating to my query.  I've heard from nobody.  In fact, the employee involved in this yesterday was busy editing the messages section of your facebook site.  One message disappeared yesterday afternoon when it became apparent that Ministerial intervention had been sought.  Why?

My approach to the Minister has nothing to do with delays in responding. You've attempted to turn my complaint into one about delays in answering over Christmas.  I can assure you that my complaint is about more than that and, like any reasonable person, I expect an apology from the Fisheries section of the DPI&R Dept. 

My complaint to the Minister has everything to do with lazy and unprofessional conduct by an employee of the Dept of Primary Industries and Resources.  That person refused to answer a simple direct question and then tried to play ducks-and-drakes about it.  Disgraceful behaviour from a public official. 

In any case, that lazy and unprofessional employee advised me that the Minister would be the best person to answer my query yet I don't see any answer in your e-mail.

Secondly, did that same lazy and unprofessional employee attempt to mislead me when advising me that "the Minister or Director must authorise all Departmental responses that are to be made from the Dept's facebook site"?

I simply don't want to deal with the Fisheries staff of the DPI Dept if it means that the standard of public interface is the same level as that I experienced over the last few days. 
 
Being Chief of Staff in the Ministers Office, then according to that lazy and unprofessional person, you'll have no trouble with the question:

  "Can you tell me please who has been appointed under section 7 of the NT Fisheries Act as a fisheries officer"?   

I'm not seeking individual identities and would be satisfied with classes of persons and perhaps how many eg TO Rangers,  NT Wildlife officers,,,,,,,,etc.

regards
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Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

Got an answer from NT Fisheries.

The only NT Government fisheries officers are:

. NT police; and

.Director of NT Fisheries.


Other appointments as NT fisheries officers are Commonwealth Government employees:

. Australian Fish Management Authority officials; and

. Parks Australia officers in Kakadu.

Here's a copy of the advice from Fisheries. In respect of the identification card, it contains a photograph of the person appointed.

Hi Ron,

Here is some more detailed information that I believe will answer your question. In addition to NT police officers, a number of other fisheries officers have been appointed. This includes Australian Fisheries Management Authority officers (who provide compliance services for some of our offshore fisheries) and Parks Australia officers in Kakadu.

All ‘NT Fisheries Officers’ have been issued with an NT Fisheries Officer identification card.

Under the new Fisheries Act, which commenced on 1 January, is the provision to allow for ‘fisheries inspectors’ to be appointed.

No fisheries inspectors have been appointed as yet.


That's it.

In respect of the new fisheries inspectors, I find out what their role is to be under the new (amended) Fisheries Act.

Be aware that the amended version of the NT Fisheries Act has not made it onto the Austlii data base yet. It still contains the old one.

Here's the link to the newer version

.https://legislation.nt.gov.au/en/Legisl ... HERIES-ACT
Regards
Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by cuddlescooper »

So in a nutshell its police or Water Police, Kakadu rangers and AFMA or customs. These are the only ones you have to answer to! Wasn't hard. The DPI (research Fisheries) have no power and the Indiginous rangers have no restraining or Seizure powers. Until boat rego comes in apart from the top 3 (who I have no problem answering to) i''m still micky mouse and they are still Donald duck with all the rest.
ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

Good on ya, Mickey.

Yep its only police unless you are in Kakadu (Commonwealth Park) where rangers can talk to you or in offshore areas where NT Fisheries has arrangements with Commonwealth's Aus Fish Management Authority.

But under new version of the Act there'll be provision for fisheries inspectors. They'll be appointed under the Act (same as fisheries officers).

There'll be 2 types of fisheries inspectors. Class 1 and Class 2.

Class 1 fisheries inspectors will have limited powers. Class 2 fisheries inspectors will have extra powers as outlined below

You can find the details in Section 205AB of the new Act.

Simply put Class 1 inspectors can require you to give name and address and examine your gear. That's it. Can't examine fish, aquatic life, require you to stop, board your vessel, etc etc.........

Class 2 inspectors have pretty much the same powers as current fisheries officers.

Penalties will apply for people who fail to comply.

Note the differences.


Class 1 inspectors can examine gear only.
Class 2 inspectors can examine gear, fish and aquatic life.
Both classes can require you to give name and address.

Class 1 inspectors will undoubtedly be suitably trained NT rangers. And it will happen gradually over time with plenty of warning.

THERE HAVE NOT BEEN ANY FISHERIES INSPECTOR APPOINTMENTSAT THIS STAGE.

To put in bluntly, the NT Govt would be extremely wary about suddenly having rangers running around with full fisheries inspectors powers with the risk of inflaming current simmering tensions. I'd also expect that a ranger's appointment may have geographical limitations.

Anyway, the opportunity is there now for everybody to have a good look at the new Fisheries Act tool and I'd encourage everybody to do it.

I think that at least we have some clarity about who is/isn't a fisheries officer/inspector and who can ask you what.
Regards
Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by nomad »

Ron, did you check the regs to see if people have to give correct names and addy? we had huge problems years ago when they messed up the new provision. people were legally required to answer the name/addy question but nothing forced them to give correct info. It took nearly 12 mths to bring in the changes and was a huge joke in the dept. - i had no idea just how many Michael mouses were out there.

im sure they will sort it before 1/7/17. then again, they have had 10 years to sort the mess but nothing has been done to date.
ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

Mate these things are law from 1 Jan 2017.

Its only the NLC stuff that's been postponed.

Section 209 of Fisheries Regulations

General offences

Any failure by a person which contravenes a requirement (eg true and correct name and address) attracts a maximum financial penalty of 20 penalty units. A penalty unit in the NT is currently $154 so 20 penalty units is a maximum of 20 x $154 which is $3008.

There is no provision for an infringement notice for this particular offence so its Magistrate time and the penalty will be up to the Magistrate but the max he/she can impose is $3008. That wouldn't apply to a cleanskin.

So you'd want to be able to prove that you really are Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck and that your address is at Disney Studios in Los Angeles. I'm sure that production of a confirmation letter signed by Walt Disney would be accepted.
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Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by mickkk »

Wow, it is a sad site to see, when throwing in a line as a past time has become such a legal mine field.
But I must thank you ronje, for taking the time to ask the correct questions, and keep the numphys like he informed.
I have a question, this whole permit for tidal waters, is it for fishing the intertidal waters, or being in the intertidal waters?
ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

MicKKK

Here's my understanding

Paraphrased permit info from the NLC website

http://www.nlc.org.au/articles/info/fre ... -questions

If you wish to enter Aboriginal land or waters for any purpose in the Northern Land Council region then you will need to apply to the Northern Land Council for a permit.

Depending on your purpose, you will require either: a work permit, a Transit permit, a [i]Recreational fishing and Tourist Permit
; a Research Permit; a Media Permit; or a Commercial Filming Permit[/i]

The one most popular on this forum is the rec fishing permit.

These permits cost the applicant.

I don't know the details of the total value of all of the total permits issued annually but it would be quite substantial (particularly work permits for repairs/maintenance to facilities).

From the income, the NLC takes an administrative fee and the rest goes into a Trust Fund.

That website homepage lays out the system as it applies to the NLC (which isn't the only land council in the NT but its the one you hear most about 'cos it covers most fishing areas).
Regards
Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by fish4me123 »

What happens if you have engine trouble or weather probs and are forced to enter tidal waters
tight lines
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by jeffish »

fish4me123
That's usually OK ,as long as they don't catch you fishing. Take all hooks off your rods have nothing
rigged for fishing .

Good work Ron getting to the answer they should have provided in the first place .
It's good info to know for those that weren't sure .

After an incident I had at the Tiwi's a while back I went directly to the minister to ask this very same question , and they provided me the right info at the time .
As a rec fisho it pays to know your rights , If someone wants to board your boat .

cheers.
ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

fish4me123 wrote:What happens if you have engine trouble or weather probs and are forced to enter tidal waters


ABORIGINAL LAND RIGHTS (NORTHERN TERRITORY) ACT 1976 - SECT 70

Entry etc. on Aboriginal land
             (1)  A person shall not enter or remain on Aboriginal land.


(2A)  In proceedings against a person for an offence against subsection (1), it is a defence if the person enters or remains on the land:

(h)  in accordance with this Act or a law of the Northern Territory.


But which law of the NT is a defence?

Here's one.

NT Criminal Code Act

Section 43BC
Sudden or extraordinary emergency
(1) A person is not criminally responsible for an offence if the person carries out the conduct constituting the offence in response to circumstances of sudden or extraordinary emergency.

(2) This section applies only if the person carrying out the conduct reasonably believes that:

(a) circumstances of sudden or extraordinary emergency exist; and

(b) committing the offence is the only reasonable way to deal with the emergency; and

(c) the conduct is a reasonable response to the emergency.


But the burden of proving there was an emergency lies with you.

There'll be other defences I'm sure.
Regards
Ronje
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Re: NT Fisheries Dept

Post by ronje »

Fellas

I've communicated with a couple of NT people in the last couple of days and the standout message from them is that the public service side of NT Fisheries is a bureaucracy that has very little in-house experience and skills in operational matters.

Don't expect them to know or interpret the laws about fishing. They will confidently tell you anything at all including incorrect info.

The people who DO know are the people who actually enforce the fisheries laws. The NT water police.

There aren't many of them so sometimes are a bit hard to catch up with.

My advise is to e-mail them (not telephone) if you have a query.

I might bail out of this thread now and let you guys explore things yourselves.

Feel free to pm if you wish.
Regards
Ronje
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