Are croc numbers too high?

Introduce yourself, talk about beer, crocs, headlines, dugongs or Paris Hilton.
User avatar
drifter
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1116
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:31 am
Location: Saratoga NSW

Are croc numbers too high?

Post by drifter »

This topic needed a dedicated post.

1945 – 1971 lucrative trade in croc skins
1971 croc numbers in the NT were 3,000 (5% left) “protection status” issued
1980 croc numbers 30,000 - 40,000 1984 classification upgraded to allow commercial harvest.
1994 croc numbers 70,000 - 75,000
2014 croc numbers 100,000 - 200,000.

I can understand the need for the protection status back in 1971. (If we hadn’t, they were history).
But what was its aim? To restore croc populations. But to what numbers?

The docs I’ve read, refer to getting the population back to maximum numbers where the crocs will maintain their own sustainable population thru predation.
However, a croc has only 2 predators. Humans & other crocs. Well, we have taken 1 of the only 2 apex predators off that list.

I have read that populations in 1971 were either 3,000 or 5,000. Either way, if the croc prop was reduced to 5% when it became protected, then that makes the optimum population 100,000 crocs. That optimum population had 2 predators.

We are up to 200,000 now, with only 1 predator.

If the rivers could take another 100,000 crocs “sustainably”, then when is enough? Maybe another 200,000.

Not only has the croc population grown significantly in the last 40 years, but guess what, so has ours.

There has to be a midway point between the tree huggers & the animal killers.

Croc attacks have been increasing since 1984. This from an NT Gov’t doc “a series of fatal and non-fatal attacks occurred in 12 months, along with an increase in other incidents such as attacks on fishing boats. (That was when the pop was 30,000).

I’m guessing that hiatus between 1971 & 1984 was that crocs knew to fear us. As the older ones die off & the younger ones have never been shot at, the problem escalates.

2014. Now look at it. 200,000 uneducated crocs.

The NT Govt issue 500 licences a year to take crocs for commercial purposes. Less than 100 are requested. And that’s because there is no money in it.

Let’s put money in it!

Pass it over to commercial hunters (with strict Gov’t controls & quotas).
Let’s get to that mid-way point, make a buck out of it & turn it into an industry.

If we don’t do anything, then in 10 years time……………….
We won’t be having this discussion, as the Forum won’t be here.


User avatar
maxpower
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1162
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Darwin
Contact:

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by maxpower »

The NT Govt issue 500 licences a year to take crocs for commercial purposes. Less than 100 are requested. And that’s because there is no money in it.
Plenty of money in it for the croc farms/operators supplying the skins/meat/tourism etc. I wonder why they are all against new laws? I think dirtyruiz touched on this in another thread. There is more to this issue than meets the eye. $$$

I think you have a good point Drifter, it's not only the fact that the croc population has spiraled out of control to 100000-200000 (if not more), its the fact they are now "uneducated" as you say. They are no longer afraid of boats/humans.
User avatar
Hemi
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:31 am

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by Hemi »

As long as Giles & Burns remain F'Buddies.... Not much will change.
"Bite off more than you can chew - Then chew like hell.." - PETER BROCK.
nomad
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 5770
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:29 pm
Location: PALMERSTON
Contact:

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by nomad »

We will never know what the population was before the open season of the 70’s.
Why are there so many now? Were there so many around when Cook arrived?
We read about the early explorers swimming their entire party (including horses) across every river they came across but not one of them was taken. Why?
Every species has maximum number where they level off.
Crocs do get predated on during their life, birds, fish and other crocs
The mortality rate in croc farms is astounding. (I know they all dies at some stage but the death toll before harvesting is way over 60%)
I wonder if the latest problem is a result of them being almost wiped out and now they somehow their populations have exploded is a short time.
We humans never learn that when you fkuc with nature, nature bites back in other ways

It has to come down to education, both us and them.
They can be educated. They learn new ways to get their prey but mostly they are opportunistic hunters
We on the other hand as very slow learners. Yes people used to swim in areas when they were kids that they can’t swim in now because the population has increased.
BUT we still enter the water. So who is the slow learner?
User avatar
drifter
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1116
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:31 am
Location: Saratoga NSW

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by drifter »

Bob Katter has the right idea - Come to Queensland and shoot a pig: The new tourism campaign Bob Katter wants to run

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/come-to-q ... 7036313964
Barramunday2Sunday
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by Barramunday2Sunday »

Here is an oldie but a goodie.... very very Interesting that this same topic was brought up over 26 years ago! Enjoy

In recent years crocodiles have made quite an impact.......

10 people have lost their lives.

Living in the far north of Australia has been described as living inside a giant game park... no fences between man and beast, with the balance tipping more and more in the crocodiles favour.

Jack Absalom talks with people of the Northern Territory's top end about their experiences with an increasing crocodile population.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4WWH36Gk8A
User avatar
mippa
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:42 pm

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by mippa »

nomad wrote:We read about the early explorers swimming their entire party (including horses) across every river they came across but not one of them was taken.
when i was at school up here we learnt that during the John Stuart expedition a fair few were taken when crossing rivers. So dunno what book you've read, and ones that date back as far as captain cooks arrival?

my dad used to swim at the rock hole at corroboree back in the 60's 70' without a worry in the world. the silly bugger still used to jump in there to unsnag lures in the 90's when i was fishing with him. ask him if he would jump in now. i doubt it.

they aren't scared of humans any more. no if's or buts. look at all the new comer posts in the last year. there is more replies 'to be careful of crocs' rather than fishing. 10 years ago you'd talk more about the fishing spot and where to go.
nomad
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 5770
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:29 pm
Location: PALMERSTON
Contact:

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by nomad »

The Guttenberg project has the actual journals of all the explorers etc and not one I’ve read has any account of croc attack. They are 1st hand accounts unlike text books.
I couldn’t believe it either.
They entered everything from supplies to daily distances and directions in detail but nothing about croc attacks (although they did call them alligators) they just shot the ones they encountered

Considering that stuart went up the guts, he wouldnt have encountered as many as the coastal exxplorers
User avatar
dannett
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1195
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:37 am

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by dannett »

nomad wrote:The Guttenberg project has the actual journals of all the explorers etc and not one I’ve read has any account of croc attack. They are 1st hand accounts unlike text books.
I couldn’t believe it either.
They entered everything from supplies to daily distances and directions in detail but nothing about croc attacks (although they did call them alligators) they just shot the ones they encountered

Considering that stuart went up the guts, he wouldnt have encountered as many as the coastal exxplorers
Wasn't someone taken from a boat on the Roper River back in the early 1900s?
cuddlescooper
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 3116
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: Darwin

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by cuddlescooper »

I think a big point there nomad is that they shot any they encountered before they crossed the rivers!

I too remember being told in there explorations that there was an attack by a croc on there travels but can not remember the details as told by the books.

The other thing is that crocs back then would have been spread out across the range and not gathered near a boat ramp! The sight of a human would have been non existent let alone fisherman releasing fish after fish on spots providing easy food attracting them. The crocs wouldn't be lying in wait at a popular area as there was no one here for them to learn bad habits.

Lots has changed and I think people will still respect the Crocs if a cull was done to reduce numbers. I don't think too many would swim in corroboree like in the past if the numbers were reduced because we have all been brought up in an era that we fear the bl..dy things and don't put out toes in the water. I went to a QLD dam and didn't jump over to retrieve a lure just because the area looked like it would be infested with crocs back here in the NT. The reduction would how ever take out a fair chance of being takin. Less crocs, less chance- simple maths in my veiw. Half the numbers again!
User avatar
Hemi
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:31 am

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by Hemi »

Any time now.....!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Bite off more than you can chew - Then chew like hell.." - PETER BROCK.
User avatar
Gagey
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:16 pm
Location: Katherine

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by Gagey »

Back in the 90's there was a few of us at the KGFC who wrote letters to the papers and the Government pushing the Florida model as a way of controlling crocs numbers. I hear that the croc farms can't take too many more from the wild because of the CITES restrictions on what you can do with them, so wide spread trapping is not a viable option. I would encourage anyone who wants to know more to view this web site, http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/manag ... r/harvest/ . I also believe that this could be an avenue where AFANT could raise the issue on behalf of the fishermen of the NT and put our case to the Govt, and our elected officials take it back to the feds for a rethink on their stance. Gagey
User avatar
dannett
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1195
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:37 am

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by dannett »

cuddlescooper wrote:I think a big point there nomad is that they shot any they encountered before they crossed the rivers!

I too remember being told in there explorations that there was an attack by a croc on there travels but can not remember the details as told by the books.

The other thing is that crocs back then would have been spread out across the range and not gathered near a boat ramp! The sight of a human would have been non existent let alone fisherman releasing fish after fish on spots providing easy food attracting them. The crocs wouldn't be lying in wait at a popular area as there was no one here for them to learn bad habits.

Lots has changed and I think people will still respect the Crocs if a cull was done to reduce numbers. I don't think too many would swim in corroboree like in the past if the numbers were reduced because we have all been brought up in an era that we fear the bl..dy things and don't put out toes in the water. I went to a QLD dam and didn't jump over to retrieve a lure just because the area looked like it would be infested with crocs back here in the NT. The reduction would how ever take out a fair chance of being takin. Less crocs, less chance- simple maths in my veiw. Half the numbers again!
Well said.

You wouldn't want to be fishing on your own at Corroborrie and fall out of the boat. I think if that were to happen your chance of survival now would be very slim.
User avatar
AM
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 1986
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:33 pm
Contact:

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by AM »

Hemi wrote:As long as Giles & Burns remain F'Buddies.... Not much will change.
Sounds like a very apt signature ya got there.
bushie
Jedi Seadog
Jedi Seadog
Posts: 819
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:20 am
Location: Redneck in Wonderland

Re: Are croc numbers too high?

Post by bushie »

let's just shoot 'em. Please. I want that croc skull for the bar. maybe more then one, bugger it, can I shoot them all?
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Barramundi Banter”